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Author Topic: Possible strict-EENS chapel  (Read 239630 times)

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Offline Gray2023

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #340 on: January 28, 2026, 08:44:14 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 28, 2026, 08:19:32 AM
Yes, this is the solution.  If one wants to understand a complex theological question, one has to read, study and research.  If you don't, fine.  Go find another topic.
Without the proper authorities in check how does a bunch of lay people discussing the matter accomplish anything.  

Since people do not accept the Baltimore Catechism, does that mean we had false popes before V2?  And how far back do we go?  Does that mean the Church is defectible?  

All of this has to make sense and if you don't patiently take the time to discuss this with idiots like me then all you really want is an echo chamber of everyone agreeing with you (all the people who follow Father Feeney.)
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #341 on: January 28, 2026, 10:36:15 AM »
Quote from: Gray2023 on January 28, 2026, 08:44:14 AM
Without the proper authorities in check how does a bunch of lay people discussing the matter accomplish anything. 
Part of it is doctrinal, part is theory.  The Church has YET to decide the matter, so there's no "proper authorities" to speak of, except the Saints and a few statements from Rome.  With research and time, you can pretty well determine the parameters of the question (i.e.  Saying "this" is going too far into heresy; saying "that" is an acceptable theory).

The whole debate can be boiled down to this:

If one looks objectively at EENS, the reason why it has been thrice-defined is because it is THE DOCTRINE which stands in the way of a global religion, new-age-ecuмenism and antichrist.  It is also THE DOCTRINE which V2 changed the most...in prep for their V2 religion.  It is also THE DOCTRINE which we humans have the hardest time of, i.e. sentimentality and also the mystery of salvation (i.e. understanding God's mercy/justice).

Fr Feeney was fighting V2 errors in the 40s/50s before V2 even existed.  Then V2 comes along and basically says "universal salvation is ok". 
1.  Most Trads say Fr Feeney was wrong - i.e. his fight against universal salvation was wrong.
2.  Most Trads say V2's universal salvation is wrong - i.e. implicitly agreeing with Fr Feeney.
3.  Most Trads don't see the contradiction.

1.  Fr Feeney said that non-baptized persons who wanted baptism but die beforehand do not 100% go to heaven, because it's not been defined.  We don't know.  Probably Limbo.
2.  V2 says that non-baptized persons who wanted baptism are saved.
3.  Trads reject V2 as error.
4.  Trads also reject Fr Feeney as error.
5.  Trads say V2 was too lenient (i.e. non-baptized are saved) but that Fr Feeney was too strict (i.e. non-baptized go to limbo).  So where do they go???
6.  Or...Trads say V2 was wrong but still agree that non-baptized are saved, and falsely think they are Traditional, even though they accept V2 heresies.

The contradiction is immense.
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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #342 on: January 28, 2026, 12:59:00 PM »
Quote from: Gray2023 on January 28, 2026, 05:56:11 AM
Wow.  I have been in tradition for 20+ years.  And I can't believe you write something like this publicly instead of privately. Just because you have been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you have the correct answers.  And yes 2 years ago i was emotional about the Crisis and the lack of charity among traditionalists. I now have just learned to accept that people will mostly do what they want because all of us are contaminated by pride.

Again the solution to all this doesn't require getting into the weeds on this topic.  It just requires Catholics doing their best to convert people to Truth.  It should be used as a motivation for us to do the correct thing and not a stick to beat people with.


Mea culpa on the 20 years.  I would not have guessed from our conversation.

No doubt your intention is good but the fight is for the faith. In order “to convert people to Truth”, we must know the Catholic faith.

Faith is believing what God has revealed. Without faith it is impossible to please God [Hebrews 11:6]. The remote rule of faith is found in Scripture and Tradition, The Proximate rule of faith is Dogma which is divine revelation infallibly defined and constitutes the formal object of divine and Catholic faith. Dogma is the end of theological speculation.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas".

Dogma is, as Pope St. Pius X said, "A truth fallen from heaven”.

In St. Pius X's Oath Against Modernism, the word dogma appears 6 times and in Pascendi Dominici Gregis, in speaking of the Modernists and their goal (the destruction of dogma) the word dogma appears over 30 times.

To answer your question 2 years ago, “Where do I find dogma”? You can start with every article of every Creed, they are ALL dogmas.

Everyone is subject to dogma including the popes. Dogma is (again) Truth, a weapon against every heresy in defending the Catholic faith against heretical Authority.

You can also find dogma in the Canons of The Catechism of the Council of Trent. Every Canon is an infallibly defined dogma.

Any one that denies, rejects or corrupts a dogma is by definition, a heretic. The Church has always taught that denying one dogma is enough to send a person to Hell.

But according to Neo Modernists, the definition of a "Feeneyite Heretic" :facepalm: is someone who believes in the literal meaning of dogma. So, if you ignore or don't understand Truth, how are you going to teach it? Read all the Creeds carefully and prayerfully including the Athanasian Creed. St. Agustine said: "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe in order that I may understand". That, is faith.

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Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #343 on: January 28, 2026, 09:59:25 PM »
Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on January 28, 2026, 12:59:00 PM

Mea culpa on the 20 years.  I would not have guessed from our conversation.

No doubt your intention is good but the fight is for the faith. In order “to convert people to Truth”, we must know the Catholic faith.

Faith is believing what God has revealed. Without faith it is impossible to please God [Hebrews 11:6]. The remote rule of faith is found in Scripture and Tradition, The Proximate rule of faith is Dogma which is divine revelation infallibly defined and constitutes the formal object of divine and Catholic faith. Dogma is the end of theological speculation.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas".

Dogma is, as Pope St. Pius X said, "A truth fallen from heaven”.

In St. Pius X's Oath Against Modernism, the word dogma appears 6 times and in Pascendi Dominici Gregis, in speaking of the Modernists and their goal (the destruction of dogma) the word dogma appears over 30 times.

To answer your question 2 years ago, “Where do I find dogma”? You can start with every article of every Creed, they are ALL dogmas.

Everyone is subject to dogma including the popes. Dogma is (again) Truth, a weapon against every heresy in defending the Catholic faith against heretical Authority.

You can also find dogma in the Canons of The Catechism of the Council of Trent. Every Canon is an infallibly defined dogma.

Any one that denies, rejects or corrupts a dogma is by definition, a heretic. The Church has always taught that denying one dogma is enough to send a person to Hell.

But according to Neo Modernists, the definition of a "Feeneyite Heretic" :facepalm: is someone who believes in the literal meaning of dogma. So, if you ignore or don't understand Truth, how are you going to teach it? Read all the Creeds carefully and prayerfully including the Athanasian Creed. St. Agustine said: "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe in order that I may understand". That, is faith.
Here is the clarity that you need to answer my question.  I wanted the specific dogma that has been handed to us from the Catholic Church in regards to BoD and BoB.  What happens with me, when I am trying to think on my feet, my words come out all jumbled.  It is a humiliation that I have been living with for a long time.  So please provide the official teaching of the Church that condemns BoD and BoB.  If it has not been decided yet, then just say that.
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Offline leonhardeuler

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #344 on: January 28, 2026, 10:06:03 PM »
Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on January 28, 2026, 12:59:00 PM

Mea culpa on the 20 years.  I would not have guessed from our conversation.

No doubt your intention is good but the fight is for the faith. In order “to convert people to Truth”, we must know the Catholic faith.

Faith is believing what God has revealed. Without faith it is impossible to please God [Hebrews 11:6]. The remote rule of faith is found in Scripture and Tradition, The Proximate rule of faith is Dogma which is divine revelation infallibly defined and constitutes the formal object of divine and Catholic faith. Dogma is the end of theological speculation.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas".

Dogma is, as Pope St. Pius X said, "A truth fallen from heaven”.

In St. Pius X's Oath Against Modernism, the word dogma appears 6 times and in Pascendi Dominici Gregis, in speaking of the Modernists and their goal (the destruction of dogma) the word dogma appears over 30 times.

To answer your question 2 years ago, “Where do I find dogma”? You can start with every article of every Creed, they are ALL dogmas.

Everyone is subject to dogma including the popes. Dogma is (again) Truth, a weapon against every heresy in defending the Catholic faith against heretical Authority.

You can also find dogma in the Canons of The Catechism of the Council of Trent. Every Canon is an infallibly defined dogma.

Any one that denies, rejects or corrupts a dogma is by definition, a heretic. The Church has always taught that denying one dogma is enough to send a person to Hell.

But according to Neo Modernists, the definition of a "Feeneyite Heretic" :facepalm: is someone who believes in the literal meaning of dogma. So, if you ignore or don't understand Truth, how are you going to teach it? Read all the Creeds carefully and prayerfully including the Athanasian Creed. St. Agustine said: "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe in order that I may understand". That, is faith.
According to non-Feeneyites, the problem is Feeneyites not understanding a particular dogma as the Church understands it.
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