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Author Topic: Possible strict-EENS chapel  (Read 144034 times)

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Offline WorldsAway

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Possible strict-EENS chapel
« on: May 19, 2025, 09:04:20 PM »
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  • Saints Peter and Paul Chapel in York, PA.

    Looks like the priest there is Fr. Samuel Waters, apparently conditionally ordained by +Williamson 

    http://saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/



    Several sections taken from the "Weekly Bulletins" section (Ladislaus is cited in the third :cowboy:):









    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #1 on: May 19, 2025, 09:18:25 PM »
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  • Quote
    But rest assured, Fr. Waters is no longer just a "Novus Ordo" priest.  Because of the unjust action of Bishop Chaput that cast public doubt upon the validity of Fr. Waters ordination, Fr. Waters was ordained conditionally in 2014 according to the "received and approved rites customarily used in the solemn administration of the sacraments", as dogmatized from the Council of Trent, by Bishop Richard Williamson who was likewise ordained a priest and consecrated a bishop in the "received and approved rites" of the Catholic Church by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. It is the use of the "received and approved rites" whereby a minister establishes that his intent is to "do what the Church does" which is necessary for sacramental validity.  Fr. Samuel Waters’ orders are most certainly valid unlike every other Novus Ordo priest where the ordaining intention of the minister now must always be examined and sometimes viewed with grave suspicion. 




    Fr. Waters. Nomen est omen? God Bless him!
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #2 on: May 19, 2025, 10:14:12 PM »
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  • Fr. Waters. Nomen est omen? God Bless him!
    If they accept prevost as pope they either deny EENS or deny indefectibility and infallibility 


    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #3 on: May 19, 2025, 10:48:06 PM »
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  • If they accept prevost as pope they either deny EENS or deny indefectibility and infallibility
    :sleep:
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #4 on: May 19, 2025, 11:10:21 PM »
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  • I'm having to wonder if this was once an Orthodox church building.  Those domes are quite unusual, and there's just something about the architecture, both interior and exterior, that seems to indicate that.  This said, it would be kind of odd for there to have been an Orthodox church in a smallish city in southeastern Pennsylvania (northeastern and southwestern, no, southeastern, yes).

    Here's another view:



    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #5 on: May 20, 2025, 02:02:28 AM »
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  • :sleep:
    So you are a heretic. Got it. Don’t let the door hit you on the way down (To hell).

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #6 on: May 20, 2025, 07:11:32 AM »
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  • So you are a heretic. Got it. Don’t let the door hit you on the way down (To hell).
    :sleep::sleep:
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #7 on: May 20, 2025, 07:19:23 AM »
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  • I'm having to wonder if this was once an Orthodox church building.  Those domes are quite unusual, and there's just something about the architecture, both interior and exterior, that seems to indicate that.  This said, it would be kind of odd for there to have been an Orthodox church in a smallish city in southeastern Pennsylvania (northeastern and southwestern, no, southeastern, yes).

    Here's another view:


    Apparently it used to be a ѕуηαgσgυє

    https://yorkblog.com/yorktownsquare/abraham-lincoln-at-hanover-junction-in-1863-and-today/


    Hopefully they checked for tunnels...
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #8 on: May 20, 2025, 11:56:56 AM »
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  • This is a recent picture after 21 years of restorations inside and out.

    http://saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/index.htm

    Below, The Mission Statement and Membership Pledge
    http://saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/MISSION%20STATEMENT%20MEMBRSHIP%20PLEDGE.htm

    And Open Letters:
    http://saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/open_letters.htm
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #9 on: December 08, 2025, 04:18:44 PM »
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  • Revisiting this...
    Has anyone been here? Only true-EENS chapel east of Louisville, KY..as far as I know!


    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #10 on: December 08, 2025, 05:01:37 PM »
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  • And yet, are you aware of this? If I am not mistaken, this chapel has a habit of using CathInfo posts as some sort of authoritative source. :smirk:

    http://saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/Catholic%20Controversies/Sedevacantists%20and%20Conservative%20Catholics-%20Unity%20in%20Error_%20Both%20believe%20Pope%20is%20Rule%20of%20Faith.htm
    Mass options in the USA in 2025:

    1) Una cuм and EENS-rejecting

    2) Una cuм and EENS-professing

    3) Non-Una cuм and EENS-rejecting


    :popcorn: 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #11 on: December 08, 2025, 05:11:28 PM »
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  • Mass options in the USA in 2025:

    1) Una cuм and EENS-rejecting

    2) Una cuм and EENS-professing

    3) Non-Una cuм and EENS-rejecting


    :popcorn:
    Well, I suppose even those Una cuм EENS-professing chapels don't exactly get who is "in" and "outside of" the Church quite right. Whaddya gonna do 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #12 on: December 08, 2025, 05:41:55 PM »
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  • Huh, it's almost like something is stopping the correct alignment, ya know?
    Yes..
    Quote
    EENS-rejecting

    :incense:
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #13 on: December 08, 2025, 06:18:06 PM »
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  • Are by any chance some of these comments a reaction to the OPEN LETTER recently posted on SS P&P webpage?

    http://saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/INDULTIST_Reply_11-21-25.htm

                         
    Quote
                          Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission
    P.O. Box 7352
    York, PA 17404
    (717) 792-2789

     
    +Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary

     
    Enclosure: Email communication from Mr. X, an Indult Catholic from Lancaster, PA
     
    Mr. X,
     
    If you are "trapped," it is a trap of your own making. "If I were in (your) place" I would be rethinking what mistakes I made that got me there? In the end, I hope I would be doing what Saints Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission has been doing for the last 25 years when we began with a monthly Mass in a basement chapel in Lancaster. It has been 24 years since the first OPEN LETTER was personally delivered to Bishop Dattilo by Msgr. Mercurio Fregapane requesting from him a formal judgment on the doctrinal, liturgical and moral arguments from the bishop. Fr. Fregapane was retired and no reply came from Bishop Dattilo. Since then there has been no reply from his successors.
     
    Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission was established firstly to defend the Catholic faith in the public forum. We know and understand that the immemorial ecclesiastical traditions of the Church are not matter of mere discipline but are the very means by which the faith is expressed and communicated to others. It is because we profess and defend the Catholic faith that we offer the "received and approved" immemorial Roman rite of Mass and not the Bugnini 1962 transitional indult missal. Our Mission was intended from the beginning to publically confront the local ordinary, and through him to confront Rome, with compelling doctrinal, liturgical, moral and canonical arguments regarding our inalienable rights as Catholic faithful which are directly derived from our duties imposed by God. For 25 years we have been trying to get the bishops of hαɾɾιsburg, or their designated representative, to enter into a public written exchange regarding the validity of our claims for the purpose of bringing those in error back to Catholic truth. In our letters to hαɾɾιsburg we have frequently reminded the bishops of Catholic saints who have spent their lives, often giving their lives, for the purpose of restoring heretics and schismatics to the Catholic Church. This has made no impression on them, and this should make every Catholic question why these slugs are so devoid of charity that they are indifferent in defending the truth or restoring heretical and schismatic Catholics to the Church. The purpose of a canonical contention is to determine who is contending for truth. Apparently, the Bishops of hαɾɾιsburg are not confident who in the end would be publically convicted of heresy and schism.
     
    The Catholic bishops of the United States are the people who have stolen more than five billion dollars ($5,000,000,000.00) from Catholics to pay off the victims of their crimes of pederasty while studiously avoiding ever to identify that the problem is overwhelmingly caused by ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ clerics. We might think it charitable to attribute this to mindlessness but then we would justifiably be accused of being mindless as well. Any cleric that does not clearly recognize that the problem of sɛҳuąƖ corruption of the clergy is because of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is either a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ himself or a hireling thoroughly penetrated with the vice of sloth, the Novus Ordo's most evident moral failing. These clerics clearly do not have the Catholic faith. What Catholics saints such as St. Peter of Verona, St. Andrew Bobola, St. Josephat, St. Fidelis of Sigmaringen, and the English martyrs under Henry VIII and Elizabeth I gave their lives to restore schismatics and heretics to the Catholic Church, the bishops of hαɾɾιsburg will not even attempt. As time goes by the fruit of Vatican II, a pastoral council that is an evident pastoral failure, becomes manifestly more fetid every year.
     
    There is no reason that the Catholics in Lancaster cannot do what the Catholics in York have been doing, but you must know the Catholic faith. The remote rule of faith is found in Scripture and Tradition. The proximate rule of faith is DOGMA which is divine revelation infallibly defined and constitutes the formal object of divine and Catholic faith. The pope is the material and instrumental cause of dogma but it is God who is the formal and final cause. Dogma is, as St. Pius X said, "A truth fallen from heaven." Dogma is formulated for all the faithful. It is the end of theological speculation. The very definition of a heretic is a Catholic who rejects a dogma. The proximate rule of faith is not the pope or his local ordinary for they are as much subject to dogma as everyone of the faithful. We owe them obedience but an obedience that is properly regulated by the virtue of Religion which is the proximate subsidiary moral virtue to the virtue of Justice subject to the Faith. Any act of obedience to any properly constituted authority that violates the virtue of Religion is a sin and it matters not whether the person is your priest, your bishop or your pope. No Catholic cleric, no one whomsoever, has the authority to overturn the virtue of Religion regardless of his clerical rank or status. I repeat again, any act of obedience to a superior in violation of the virtue of Religion is a sin.
     
    The virtue of Religion requires firstly to render to God the things that are God's. You are required by God as your first duty to profess the Catholic faith and offer fitting worship to God in the public forum. You therefore  possess as a right the necessary means to fulfill these obligations. It is the duty of the bishop to insure that the means to fulfill your obligations are available to you. When the bishop fails in his duty you are free to pursue the means without his help or even against it. That is Catholic moral teaching.
     
    Recently we celebrated the feast of St. Charles Borromeo whose motto to his priests in Milan was "Stand up and be shot"! If that was declared to the clerics in the Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg they would all wet their pants. When St. Charles was appointed the bishop of Milan he immediately left Rome for Milan, a city at the time of 800,000, the largest diocese in Italy, to take up his residence. He was the first bishop in 80 years to actually live in Milan. The state of affairs in the Church is far more degraded today where the last two popes have openly embraced sodomites who claim to be "married." Today we would count it a blessing if our local ordinary would pack his bags and go live somewhere else!
     
    The bishops of hαɾɾιsburg have provided the 1962 Bugnini transitional Novus Ordo Missal as an Indult, then as a grant of legal privilege, and now again as an Indult and this grant has always been tied to unacceptable conditions that compromise the faith. You need to dump the Bugnini Missal and claim your rights as Catholics to the "received and approved" immemorial Roman rite that was dogmatized at the Council of Trent and inserted into the Tridentine Profession of Faith. If Bishop Senior will not do his duty, you are free to obtain another priest to help fulfill your obligations. The granting of supplied jurisdiction by the Church is for this very purpose. You as a Catholic have a right to the "received and approved" immemorial Roman rites because you have a duty to worship God and profess the Catholic faith in the public forum especially when that faith and worship are being compromised by the Church hierarchy. Bishop Senior has the obligation to provide the means to fulfill these duties through his ordinary jurisdiction. When the ordinary jurisdiction fails, the Church provides supplied jurisdiction to any cleric willing to assume the responsibility that the local ordinary is refusing to do. Supplied jurisdiction is established by the needs of the faithful. Furthermore, you have a right to the integral Catholic truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You have a moral obligation to avoid any cleric preaching heresy or corrupting Catholic morality in the pulpit or the confessional.
     
    You need to understand that the charge of schism by the bishops of hαɾɾιsburg repeated ad nauseam for the last 25 years is meaningless. The crime of schism is an act that requires a motive that denies the universal jurisdiction of the pope. This can only be determined by a canonical inquiry. In fact, there is one, and only one, manifest sin that always reveals the crime of schism and that is manifest heresy, for St. Thomas says, "All heretics are schismatics,"  and since Vatican I's dogmatic declarations on papal jurisdiction, all schismatics are heretics. Heresy is the denial of dogma, and that can be known not only by what is said, but by what is not said and should be. It can also be manifest by acts, or failures to act when necessary to defend the faith. The bishops do not want a canonical inquiry because they will never establish a schismatic motive for any of our actions at Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission while the evidence for clerical heresy is as easy to find as sand on a seashore. Any recent review of PEW polls demonstrate the abysmal failure of the Catholic bishops of the United States to teach or defend Catholic doctrine or uphold Catholic morals.
     
    As to the other options you mentioned, Bishop Donald Sanborn is a sedevacantist. His misguided theology turned the Church into a papal cult by holding the pope as his proximate rule of faith. He then concludes that since the pope is a problem, he usurps the power to administratively remove him from office. In so doing he has become the leader of a cult that worships Sanborn instead of the pope. He is in a church of his own making that not only does not have a pope but is missing the material and instrumental means (causes) to ever get one. He is in a church that is permanently missing  a necessary attribute of the Catholic Church. He is the blind leader of the blind. In his new church, he refuses the sacraments to any Catholic that is not vetted as bending to his personal creed. It is so bizarre that he announces on his web page that he will refuse the sacraments to any Catholic who actually believes the dogmas that the sacraments are necessary for salvation! His theology corrupts the very nature of the Church and now he has become his own pope.
     
    The Fraternity of St. Peter is a group of geldings. They have promised to keep their mouths shut in the face of manifest crimes against Catholic doctrine and morality for the "privilege" of eating table scraps. It is the faith itself that is in danger and they are dogs that won't bark.
     
    The SSPX has already been regularized in their leadership to Rome and this occurred more than ten years ago. This fact has not been openly shared by the leadership with their members or with the faithful that attend their chapels. It is the intent of Rome to eventually herd all "traditional" Catholics under their authority. There is not a dime's worth of difference between the SSPX and the Fraternity of St. Peter. I have two OPEN LETTERS on our webpage, one explaining why the SSPX cannot defend the Catholic faith and another explaining why they cannot defend our immemorial liturgical traditions.   
     
    If you want to defend the faith then you must do what we are doing in York. If you are content to live as you are then I recommend that you just inform Bishop Senior that you are considering that option of doing exactly what Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission is doing in York and see what happens. When Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission began there was no Latin Mass in the diocese excepting the one offered on the First Saturday of the month which in the beginning frequently suffered changes in both locations and times to discourage attendance. That is how it would be today without our Mission. When the diocese opened the Indult more than 50% of those who had attended our Masses left to become Indultists. The financial and material contributions to our Mission from these Indultists was next to nothing. We suffered nothing from their absence. I am perfectly satisfied with a our small group of thoroughly committed Catholics and I have no interest in packing our pews with compromisers. You should understand that the reason that the Latin Mass and the traditional sacraments are offered in hαɾɾιsburg in a beautiful setting, in a central location, at convenient times is because that is what Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission established in York. The more time passes we have proven to have been correct in everything we have argued whether on Catholic doctrine, liturgy, morality or law. We do not have to retract or qualify any of our OPEN LETTERS or our communications with the Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg or the Vatican. If we were gone tomorrow, eventually so would be the Indult. That's how it works for the Novus Ordo clerics. Their aim is not to preach and defend Catholic doctrine, worship or morality but to destroy it.
     
    Sincerely in Christ,
     
     
     
    D. M. Drew
    Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission
     
     
    cc: Bishop Timothy Senior, Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg
     
     
     
    Enclosure: Email communication to Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission from Indult Catholic, Lancaster, PA
     
     
     
    Hello Dr. Drew:
     
    I am with the Lancaster Latin Mass Community.  We spoke several years ago.  I recently had a conversation with Bishop Sanborn of the Roman Catholic Institute in Reading, PA. Their apostolate continues to grow while we remain trapped at a 1 p.m. TLM within a hostile parish in Lancaster. 
     
    As Pope Leo continues to push heresy, we are examining all of our options.  It would be great to partner with you during this time of apostasy and emergency, but I don't know exactly how we would do it. Our TLM remains permitted under a dispensation that lapsed in July.  Bishop Senior requested a renewal in June, but no word back from DDW.  If we are closed or forced to a "Latin Novus Ordo", I need options. 
     
    We spoke with Fr. Boyle at the SSPX Priory in Syracuse and I recall your opposition to the SSPX, but in any event, they don't have clergy to spare and even if they did, it would be something like a once-a-month Mass.  With their need for new bishops, a confrontation or accommodation with Rome seems inevitable. 
     
    I would be interested in your thoughts on the RCI.  As I see it, we have a continuum ranging from indult diocesan Mass (our present Lancaster option), then the FSSP in hαɾɾιsburg who made their deal with Rome, the SSPX, then your independent chapel, then the sedevacantists (RCI). 
     
    If you were in my place with 175 faithful on an average Sunday, what would you recommend we do to maintain a TLM in Lancaster?
     
    Sincerely in Christ,
     
     
    Mr. Name Withheld by request
     
     

    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #14 on: December 08, 2025, 06:23:51 PM »
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    Bishop Donald Sanborn [..] is the blind leader of the blind. In his new church, he refuses the sacraments to any Catholic that is not vetted as bending to his personal creed. It is so bizarre that he announces on his web page that he will refuse the sacraments to any Catholic who actually believes the dogmas that the sacraments are necessary for salvation! His theology corrupts the very nature of the Church and now he has become his own pope

    This part, at least, is quite right. And it is shameful
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.