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Author Topic: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire  (Read 6580 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2021, 05:51:52 AM »
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  • "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam).

    If you accept that as it is written, how can a person be saved if they die during an interregnum?  
    "And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God".

    How can a BOD cannot save anyone when even justification cannot take place without the sacrament, or the desire thereof? - how can a BOD save anyone when it cannot even justify anyone? 

    2 more questions for you to ignore - or to post volumes from fallible saints and fathers against this infallible decree.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire
    « Reply #91 on: March 15, 2021, 09:04:51 AM »
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  • I asked you what YOU believe and that is what you wrote, for that I commend you, however, your adding "BOD IS DEFINED", is nothing but a gratuitous remark, for what you wrote is just what you believe.

    In short, you are an implicit faith'er, you believe that Jҽωs, Muslims, Hindus Buddhists etc.,  indeed people in any religion, can be saved, even if they do not believe in the Holy Trinity, the Incarnation, nor want to be baptized, nor want nothing to do with the Catholic Church and her sacraments.

    No Father, Doctor, saint taught what you believe, as a matter of fact, they all unanimously reject your belief.
    Where anywhere on the Internet have I posted that!  You either have me mixed up with another or you are drunk!
    Talk about mixing up, your problem is you mix up Catholic doctrine with indifferentism and No Salvation Outside the Church as if they are one! 
    This mixing only adds to the confusion, and The Church like Christ is not CONFUSION.  The DEVIL is confusing!
    I suggest you STUDY up

    Are you even Traditional Catholic?
    Please pray for my soul.
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    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline RomanTheo

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    Re: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire
    « Reply #92 on: March 15, 2021, 12:08:41 PM »
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  • "And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God".

    How can a BOD cannot save anyone when even justification cannot take place without the sacrament, or the desire thereof? - how can a BOD save anyone when it cannot even justify anyone?

    2 more questions for you to ignore - or to post volumes from fallible saints and fathers against this infallible decree.

    You didn't answer the question I asked.  Let's give it another try:

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam).

    If you accept that dogma as it is written, and (supposedly) without interpreting it, as you claimed, how can a person be saved if they die during an interregnum?  

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire
    « Reply #93 on: March 15, 2021, 01:54:36 PM »
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    If you accept that dogma as it is written, and (supposedly) without interpreting it, as you claimed, how can a person be saved if they die during an interregnum?

    Trick question, but i'll answer.  If the person was subject to the Pontiff that had JUST died, then they fulfilled the law.  That is the spirit of the law.
    .
    The letter of the law is that the Camerlengo of the Vatican (and 2-3 other cardinals) assume the powers of the Roman Pontiff.  So, if one is subject to these individuals, they legally fulfill the requirement as well.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire
    « Reply #94 on: March 15, 2021, 02:50:44 PM »
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  • There are two requirements for subjection to the Holy Father:

    1) material:  Baptism.  Trent teaches that only the baptized are subject to the Holy Father.

    2) formal:  intent to be subject to the Holy Father (which is why schismatics are excluded, per Bellarmine).

    Neither of these ceases in a sedevacante period, nor did they cease during the Great Western Schisms for those who happened to pick the wrong pope.

    There's no requirement that there be an actual body in the See of Peter.

    This is actually a serious reason why that EENS definition militates AGANST BoD, namely, Trent's clear teaching that only the Baptized are subject to the Holy Father and his jurisdiction, to the exclusion of catechumens.

    Just as with the Sacrament of Baptism, infants aren't required to have the formal intent to be subject, since they are incapable of forming it, but are subject merely by virtue of their Baptism.  And that is why baptized schismatics who die before the age of reason are considered to have died as Catholics.