Author Topic: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire (Read 9098 times)

ElwinRansom1970 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2021, 06:14:19 PM »

I vividly recall over 25 years ago debating Water Baptism vs. BOD with two priests in an SSPX chapel residency. The priests (one now in the FSSP and the other still SSPX yet very infamous now) vehemently defended BOD in ways that were unmistakably Pelagian.

It is quite shameful that Catholics know so little about the Celtic monk Morgan (Pelagius) and his doctrines. As a result, Pelagianism is amongst the most frequently encountered errors in the Church today, circulating even commonly in otherwise traditionalist quarters.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2021, 07:40:53 PM »

Quote from: Comrade on March 10, 2021, 05:28:07 PM

This is not new but good to bring up again. MHFM published Pope St. Siricius Decree with a video and a very detailed breakdown/analysis over 7 years ago.

https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/latin-text-oldest-surviving-papal-decree-rejects-baptism-desire/#.YElUQ2hKhaQ

Oh, I know it's not new. But I threw it out there to see if any proponents of BoD would dare to address this.

None did.

It was a bit of a trap. I was waiting for them to disparage the authority of this docuмent, and then turn it around on them and ask why the same couldn't be said of the infamous Pope Innocent II docuмent cited by St. Alphonsus. Well, actually, I knew they would not touch this with a 10-foot pole ... understanding as I do their mentality and their modus operandi.

Nothing but crickets here.

They won't actually answer any arguments from their opponents. They simply re-spam the same pro-BoD sources over and over again to pretend that only those sources exist.

This continues to demonstrate that they deliberately ignore any evidence contrary to their belief in BoD. I wish to show that their entire case is fabricated by filtering out information that is inconsistent with BoD.

gemmarose · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2021, 10:22:16 PM »

Ladislaus comment:

And the typical confirmation bias of those who promote BoD causes them to ignore this.

See, unlike the BoD zealouts, the "Feeneyites" acknowledge the existence of contrary indicators or contrary evidence. We admit that St. Thomas, St. Robert Bellarmine, et al. believed in BoD. There's no need to keep re-spamming these quotes over and over again. But, being objective, we ALSO see evidence AGAINST Baptism of Desire, including the 5 or 6 Church Fathers who categorically rejected it (Fathers whom the BoD zealots filter out of the equation).

So to look at the picture, some were in favor and some were against. This leaves the overall status of BoD as a controverted matter. I hold that this decree from Pope St. Siricius demolishes Baptism of Desire, as does the dogmatic definition that there's no salvation outside the "Church of the faithful."

Good points. I understand Pope St. Leo the Great's dogmatic letter to the Council of Chalcedon is also a good reference for the mind of the early Popes.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #23 on:** March 11, 2021, 08:21:42 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on March 10, 2021, 09:03:48 AM

the proponents of BoD ignore this decree from Pope St. Siricius. Unlike those two letters from the Innocents, this was was presented as authoritative papal teaching, addressed to the entire Church, ..... In other words, of those desiring to receive it, every single one of them would lose their soul without the Sacrament of Baptism ("water pouring" of Baptism).

Thanks for the reminder. I hope you do not mind if I plagiarize your comments, because I just did.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #24 on:** March 11, 2021, 08:44:08 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on March 11, 2021, 08:21:42 AM

Thanks for the reminder. I hope you do not mind if I plagiarize your comments, because I just did.

Of course not. Whatever it takes to defend EENS dogma, my friend.

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Author Topic: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire (Read 9098 times)

ElwinRansom1970

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Ladislaus

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gemmarose

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Last Tradhican

Re: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire

Ladislaus

Re: Pope St. Siricius rejects Baptism of Desire