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Author Topic: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS  (Read 2371 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2017, 01:01:28 PM »
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  • If Newman indeed "taught" this, there there are exceptions to the principle that one cannot be saved outside the Church and without supernatural faith, then Newman was a heretic.  But this is not a complete direct quote.  In fact, even you, LoT, admit that supernatural faith is required for salvation.
    Fenton will soon destroy Newman.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #31 on: September 20, 2017, 01:04:22 PM »
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  • Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #32 on: September 20, 2017, 01:06:38 PM »
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  • Explanations of the Church's necessity drawn up in terms of this distinction were at best inadequate and confusing and all too frequently infected with serious error. When the expression "soul of the Church" was applied to sanctifying grace and the organism of supernatural virtues that accompany it, the explanation was confusing in that it stressed the fact that a man must be in the state of grace, and that he must have faith and charity if he is to attain to eternal salvation, but it tended to obscure the truth that a man must in some manner be "within" the true and visible Catholic Church at the moment of his death if he is ever to reach the Beatific Vision. Fenton 
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #33 on: September 20, 2017, 02:07:42 PM »
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  •  :applause:

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #34 on: September 20, 2017, 02:23:37 PM »
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  •     When, on the other hand, some imaginary "invisible Church," some assembly of all the good people in the world, was designated as the "soul of the Church," these explanations lapsed into doctrinal inaccuracy. The great paramount mystery of the Church is to be found in the fact that the visible and organized religious society over which the Bishop of Rome presides as the Vicar of Christ and the Successor of St. Peter is the true and only ecclesia of the New Testament. This society, and this alone, is the true kingdom of God on earth, the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. It holds within its membership both good men and bad. It includes those who are truly appreciative of their membership and those who are not. Nevertheless, in the mysterious and merciful designs of God's providence, this community and no other is the social entity within which men are to find salvific contact with God in Christ.  Fenton
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #35 on: September 20, 2017, 02:30:10 PM »
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  •  :boxer:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #36 on: September 20, 2017, 02:33:50 PM »
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  • The great paramount mystery of the Church is to be found in the fact that the visible and organized religious society over which the Bishop of Rome presides as the Vicar of Christ and the Successor of St. Peter is the true and only ecclesia of the New Testament.

    And yet, ironically, Fenton conveniently ignores all of this as he goes on.  When you can have someone within this Church while lacking the marks of membership, they can be invisibly within it.  No need for subjection to the Vicar of Christ.  No need to belong to some visible and organized religious society.  No need for the Sacrament of Baptism.  You can be within the Church, according to Fenton, without any of the actual qualifications required to be a member, i.e. to belong to this visible and organized religious society.  I would take this seriously if Fenton himself didn't completely abandon this about two sentences later.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #37 on: September 20, 2017, 02:39:15 PM »
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  • My advice to anyone who gets into a conversation with a Feeneyite on the Catholic Church's understanding of the Dogma, There is no Salvation Outside the Church, is to respond to their first query with undeniable facts from the infallible teaching of the Church, if they refuse to respond to the proof you have shown them but just keep telling you how bad you are for not being a Feeneyite don't waste your time with them. The same goes for those who are pushing for the radical, liberal - yes, apostate reforms from the synod of the family that just concluded phase one in Rome. Shake the dust off of your feet and move on to someone who is a good-willed sincere humble Catholic. 
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #38 on: September 20, 2017, 02:58:52 PM »
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  • "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #39 on: September 20, 2017, 03:08:02 PM »
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  • Lover of Truth,
    What are the undenial facts from the infallible teaching of the Church? Just state them in your own words. Shouldn't be hard since they are so clear and "undeniable."

    Go.
    :applause:
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #40 on: September 21, 2017, 08:11:24 AM »
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  • Constitutions of the Holy Apostles. Book V, Sec I, Concerning the Martyrs, para 6: (3rd-4th Century)(A compilation of writings from the Apostles and their immediate successors) "But let him who is vouchsafed the honour of martyrdom rejoice with joy in the Lord, as obtaining thereby so great a crown, and departing out of this life by his confession. Nay, though he be trot a catechumen, let him depart without trouble; for his suffering for Christ will be to him a more genuine baptism, because he does really die with Christ, but the rest only in a figure."
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #41 on: September 21, 2017, 08:51:43 AM »
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  • Lover of Truth,
    What are the undenial facts from the infallible teaching of the Church? Just state them in your own words. Shouldn't be hard since they are so clear and "undeniable."

    Go.
    Guess he "missed" this one as well...
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #42 on: September 21, 2017, 11:22:51 AM »
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  • St. Victor of Braga, (4th Century)From the Roman Martyrology: "Saint Victor: At Braga in Portugal, of Saint Victor, Martyr, who while still a catechumen refused to worship an idol, and confessed Christ Jesus with great constancy; wherefore after many torments, he merited to be baptized in his own blood, his head being cut off. Victor of Braga Martyr (Red Martyr): Died c. 300. In his chronicle, Vasaeus records that Saint Victor was baptized by blood. The catechumen was beheaded at Braga, Portugal, under Diocletian for refusing to sacrifice to idols (Benedictines, Husenbeth).
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #43 on: September 21, 2017, 12:14:58 PM »
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  •  :boxer:

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: POPE PIUS XII'S ENCYCLICAL HUMANI GENERIS
    « Reply #44 on: September 21, 2017, 02:18:59 PM »
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  • St. Augustine, Church Father and Doctor of the Church (4th-5th Century)The Seven Books of Augustin, Bishop of Hippo, On Baptism, Against the Donatists, Book IV, Ch 22: "That the place of baptism is sometimes supplied by martyrdom is supported by an argument by no means trivial, which the blessed Cyprian adduces from the thief, to whom, though he was not baptized, it was yet said, "To-day shall thou be with me in Paradise." On considering which, again and again, I find that not only martyrdom for the sake of Christ may supply what was wanting of baptism, but also faith and conversion of heart, if recourse may not be had to the celebration of the mystery of baptism for want of time. For neither was that thief crucified for the name of Christ, but as the reward of his own deeds; nor did he suffer because he believed, but he believed while suffering. It was shown, therefore, in the case of that thief, how great is the power even without the visible sacrament of baptism, of what the apostle says, "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." But the want is supplied invisibly only when the administration of baptism is prevented, not by contempt for religion, but by the necessity of the moment."
    Ch23: "But as in the thief, to whom the material administration of the sacrament was necessarily wanting, the salvation was complete, because it was spiritually present through his piety, so, when the sacrament itself is present, salvation is complete, if what the thief possessed be unavoidably wanting."
    Ch24: "And as in the thief the gracious goodness of the Almighty supplied what had been wanting in the sacrament of baptism, because it had been missing not from pride or contempt, but from want of opportunity..."
    Ch25: "By all these considerations it is proved that the sacrament of baptism is one thing, the conversion of the heart another; but that man's salvation is made complete through the two together. Nor are we to suppose that, if one of these be wanting, it necessarily follows that the other is wanting also; because the sacrament may exist in the infant without the conversion of the heart; and this was found to be possible without the sacrament in the case of the thief, God in either case filling up what was involuntarily wanting. But when either of these requisites is wanting intentionally, then the man is responsible for the omission. And baptism may exist when the conversion of the heart is wanting; but, with respect to such conversion, it may indeed be found when baptism has not been received, but never when it has been despised."

    From City of God, Book XIII, Chapter 7: "Of the Death Which the Unbaptized Suffer for the Confession of Christ: For whatever unbaptized persons die confessing Christ, this confession is of the same efficacy for the remission of sins as if they were washed in the sacred font of baptism. For He who said, "Unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God," John 3:5 made also an exception in their favor, in that other sentence where He no less absolutely said, "Whosoever shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven;" Matthew 10:32 and in another place, "Whosoever will lose his life for my sake, shall find it." Matthew 16:25"

    A Treatise on the Soul and Its Origin, Book II, Ch17, Disobedient Compassion and Compassionate Disobedience Reprobated and Martyrdom In Lieu Of Baptism: "Truth, by the mouth of Itself incarnate, proclaims as if in a voice of thunder: "Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." And in order to except martyrs from this sentence, to whose lot it has fallen to be slain for the name of Christ before being washed in the baptism of Christ, He says in another passage, "He that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."

    A Treatise On the Soul and Its Origin, by Aurelius Augustin, Bishop of Hippo; In Four Books, 419, Book 1, CH 11, Title Of Chapter 11: "Martyrdom for Christ Supplies the Place of Baptism. The Faith of the Thief Who Was Crucified Along with Christ Taken As Martyrdom And Hence for Baptism".

    On the Soul and Its Origin, Book 1, Ch 10: "Moreover, from the time when He said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven;" and again, "He that loseth his life for my sake shall find it; " no one becomes a member of Christ except it be either by baptism in Christ, or death for Christ."
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church