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Author Topic: Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, on baptism  (Read 57831 times)

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Offline WorldsAway

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Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, on baptism
« on: December 06, 2025, 11:55:42 AM »
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  • There are three English translations of this that I have found, which all slightly differ, but they are all good defences for the absolute necessity of Baptism. I have seen some BOD advocates take "commonly" to mean "often, but not always"..but we see that is not the case if you actually read what is being taught


    These are three translations

    Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, 1311-1312, ex cathedra:
    Quote
    “Besides, one baptism which regenerates all who are baptized in Christ must be faithfully confessed by all just as ‘one God and one faith’ [Eph. 4:5], which celebrated in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit we believe to be commonly the perfect remedy for salvation for adults as for children.”

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    One Baptism, which regenerates all who are baptized in Christ must be faithfully confessed by all just as ‘one God and one faith’ (Eph 4:5). We believe that baptism, celebrated with water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, is the perfect remedy for salvation both for adults and children in common

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    All are faithfully to profess that there is one baptism which regenerates all those baptized in Christ, just as there is one God and one faith’. We believe that when baptism is administered in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit, it is a perfect means of salvation for both adults and children.

    The distinction between adults and children is between those above and below the age of reason. This can be seen in the very next sentence, which says:

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    Yet because, as regards the effect of baptism in children, we find that certain theologians have held contrary opinions, some saying that by baptism guilt is indeed remitted in infants but grace is not conferred...

    Infants cannot desire the Sacrament, as they do not have the use of reason. The only "Baptism" infants can receive is the Sacrament of Baptism, administered in water.

    Pope Clement V  teaches that this baptism (The Sacrament, in water) that infants receive, which is the only Baptism that infants can receive, is in common (shared between the two), the perfect means of Salvations for both them and adults
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, on baptism
    « Reply #1 on: December 06, 2025, 12:46:27 PM »
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  • This teaching was also reiterated by Pope Benedict XII in his Apostolic Constitution, Benedictus Deus (On the Beatific Vision of God)


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    By this Constitution which is to remain in force for ever, we, with apostolic authority, define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints who departed from this world before the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ and also of the holy apostles, martyrs, confessors, virgins and other faithful who died after receiving the holy baptism of Christ- provided they were not in need of any purification when they died, or will not be in need of any when they die in the future, or else, if they then needed or will need some purification, after they have been purified after death-and again the souls of children who have been reborn by the same baptism of Christ or will be when baptism is conferred on them, if they die before attaining the use of free will: all these souls, immediately (mox) after death and, in the case of those in need of purification, after the purification mentioned above, since the ascension of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ into heaven, already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment, have been, are and will be with Christ in heaven, in the heavenly kingdom and paradise, joined to the company of the holy angels.

    Those children who have not free will, have received the same baptism of Christ as the holy apostles, martyrs, confessors, virgins, and other faithful. Those children who do not have free will received the Sacrament of Baptism administered in water
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.