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Author Topic: Pius IX and Invincible Ignorance  (Read 6200 times)

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Offline forlorn

Re: Pius IX and Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 10:57:33 AM »
The issue I have trouble with regarding no salvation via invincible ignorance, is it means that there are entire continents where every single person for a thousand years was damned. Opponents of invincible ignorance say that in the case of a virtuous pagan following natural law, God would send a missionary over to them. So why is it that Europeans are so special and always had the faith, but there were entire continents of people where not a single soul was virtuous enough for salvation?  
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Pius IX and Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2019, 12:14:24 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on February 03, 2019, 10:57:33 AM
The issue I have trouble with regarding no salvation via invincible ignorance, is it means that there are entire continents where every single person for a thousand years was damned. Opponents of invincible ignorance say that in the case of a virtuous pagan following natural law, God would send a missionary over to them. So why is it that Europeans are so special and always had the faith, but there were entire continents of people where not a single soul was virtuous enough for salvation?  
Salvation via Invincible Ignorance is an old fashion excuse, it is no longer used by BODers as a way to save those outside of the Church. It should be obvious why it is no longer used:

Question - I'm  Jew, are you telling me that I am going to Hell?

Answer  - No, you are not going to Hell, you will be saved and go to Heaven because you are invincible ignorant.


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The new and improved way to save every non-Catholic, people in all "religions", Mohamedans, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Satanists..... is salvation by belief in a God that rewards.

Whoever started this thread is behind the times.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Pius IX and Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2019, 12:21:20 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on February 03, 2019, 10:57:33 AM
The issue I have trouble with regarding no salvation via invincible ignorance, is it means that there are entire continents where every single person for a thousand years was damned. Opponents of invincible ignorance say that in the case of a virtuous pagan following natural law, God would send a missionary over to them. So why is it that Europeans are so special and always had the faith, but there were entire continents of people where not a single soul was virtuous enough for salvation?  
God put them out of reach of the gospel because they would reject it and be more guilty and suffer the worse punishments in Hell. The gospel is available today to 100x more people and they are all damned anyways but with worse punishments. 

Hell has different degrees of punishments, the best place in hell may be like Panama with only a loin cloth and without air conditioning or mosquito screening, repellent, insecticide. Maybe like living in a Siberia Gulag during the winter.
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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Pius IX and Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2019, 12:23:34 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on February 03, 2019, 10:57:33 AM
The issue I have trouble with regarding no salvation via invincible ignorance, is it means that there are entire continents where every single person for a thousand years was damned. Opponents of invincible ignorance say that in the case of a virtuous pagan following natural law, God would send a missionary over to them. So why is it that Europeans are so special and always had the faith, but there were entire continents of people where not a single soul was virtuous enough for salvation?  
Numbers 14:18 The Lord is patient and full of mercy, taking away iniquity and wickedness, and leaving no man clear, who visitest the sins of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

The Apostles accomplished the command of Our Lord per Mark 16:15, they preached Christ's Gospel to every creature - on every continent.

Those people who rejected the preaching of the Apostles, rejected it not only for themselves, but also their children unto the 3rd and 4th generation, and so on till today and for the future, unto the 3rd and 4th generation.


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Offline forlorn

Re: Pius IX and Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 02:53:47 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on February 03, 2019, 12:23:34 PM
Numbers 14:18 The Lord is patient and full of mercy, taking away iniquity and wickedness, and leaving no man clear, who visitest the sins of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

The Apostles accomplished the command of Our Lord per Mark 16:15, they preached Christ's Gospel to every creature - on every continent.

Those people who rejected the preaching of the Apostles, rejected it not only for themselves, but also their children unto the 3rd and 4th generation, and so on till today and for the future, unto the 3rd and 4th generation.
There's no evidence the Apostles ever reached America or Lapland, for example, so there's still a long time between the New Covenant and the arrival of Christian missionaries to those places. Even if we're to accept that they miraculously preached to those peoples and left no trace, why would everyone thereafter be punished for their fathers' sins? 
I'm not some BODer at all, I give (I believe the term is) faithful assent to the fact that not even the so-called "invincibly ignorant" can be saved. But it's still an issue I have trouble with understanding. 
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