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Author Topic: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.  (Read 16375 times)

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Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2017, 12:36:48 PM »
What is "the other side"?

Our side believes that dogmas are the final word on a subject of prior confusion. We simply quote the clear dogmas as they are written.

The "other side" believes that the theologians and Catholic writers interpret dogma, or at least they use that mix of theologians and other writers to conclude:

that for instance these two dogmas mean that Jews, Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhist....etc can be saved by their belief in a rewarder god:

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire ..and that nobody can be saved, … even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
 

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: “There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, …

Of course, to our side that conclusion is insane.
The Catholic side accepts EENS and BOD.  The non-Catholic side rejects one or the other or both. 

Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2017, 12:38:46 PM »
On the contrary, I look at the entire body of evidence objectively.  I've never condemned anyone for believing in BoD.  I've condemned Pelagianism, denial of EENS, modernist ecclesiology, and heretical denial of Trent's dogmatic teaching that the Sacraments are necessary for salvation.  I've taken note of the fact that many theologians believe in BoD, but it's clear from the evidence that there's no proof for this opinion and that it's just their personal opinion, an opinion with which I disagree.  I have no issues with someone believing in BoD provided that they do not simultaneously undermine EENS, promote heretical ecclesiology, advocate Pelagianism, and deny the necessity of the Sacraments (even mockingly deriding them in language identical to that of the Protestants).  So far only two BoDers on CI (Arvinger and Nishant) have met these criteria.
You trust yourself more than the theologians which is bad enough.  But also more than the Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes.  Can't you just be satisfied with being a private heretic?  Why do you have to blab your nonsense as if you are some sort of authority?


Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2017, 12:39:32 PM »
Your credibility just vanished in a puff of childish. It does save further wasted time, so thanks for that.
Talk about the kettle calling the snow black.

Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2017, 12:42:13 PM »

 :barf:
It seems rather commonplace for BoB/BoD to go hand in hand with sedevacantism. I
 :barf:
:barf:  What a puke-worthy sentiment. :barf:  Talking about subjective riff-raff.

Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2017, 12:44:29 PM »
I believe it's when someone believes that it's the Sacrament that saves in voto as Ladislaus puts it. They say that you need the sacrament but you can receive the Sacrament by actually desiring it. It's still BOD though and not taught by the Church.
Do you really believe we teach converts that it is up to them whether they want to receive the sacrament or just desire it?  You are intellectually dishonest at best.