Author Topic: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.  (Read 3693 times)

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Offline Merry

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People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
« on: August 16, 2017, 07:58:08 PM »
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  • St. Vincent Ferrer –
    There was a rich Jew of Andalusia, named Abraham, who began to leave a church in anger while Vincent was preach-ing. The Jew did not like what he was hearing. As some peo¬ple at the door opposed his passing through, St. Vincent cried out: "Let him go! Come away all of you at once, and leave the passage free!" The people did as he ordered, and at the instant the Jew left, part of the porch structure fell on him and crushed him to death. Then the saint rose from his chair and went to the body. He knelt there in prayer. Abraham came to life, and his first words were: "The religion of the Jews is not the true faith. The True Faith is that of the Christians."
     
     In memory of this event the Jew was baptized Elias (in honor of the prophet who had raised the boy from the dead). The new convert established a pious foundation in the church of the "accident" and the miracle. Bishop Peter Ranzano's account was used for this version of the miracle.
     
    St. Patrick –
    In the country of Neyll, a King Echu allowed St. Patrick to receive his beloved daughter Cynnia as a nun, though he bewailed the fact that his royal line would thereby end without issue.  The king exacted a promise from Patrick not to insist that he be baptized, yet to promise him the heavenly kingdom.  Patrick agreed, and left the matter in the hands of God.

    Sometime later King Echu lay dying.  He sent a messenger to St. Patrick to tell him he desired Baptism and the heavenly kingdom.  To those around him the King gave an order that he not be buried until Patrick came.  Patrick, then in the monastery of Saballum, two days' journey away, knew of the situation through the Holy Spirit before the messenger even arrived.  He left to go to the King, but arrived to find Echu dead.

    St. Patrick revived the King, instructed him, and baptized him.  He asked Echu to relate what he had seen of the joys of the just and the pains of the wicked, so that his account could be used for the proving of Patrick's preaching.  Echu told of many other-world wonders and of how, in the heavenly country, he had seen the place that Patrick promised him.  But the King could not enter in because he was unbaptized.

    Then St. Patrick asked Echu if he would rather live longer in this world, or go to the place prepared for him in the heavenly kingdom.  The King answered that all the world had was emptiest smoke compared to the celestial joys.  Then having received the Eucharist, he fell asleep in the Lord.
     
    St. Joan of Arc prays and brings a dead baby back to life so that it might be baptized. -Baby said to have been dead for 3 days
     In the Spring of 1430, Joan had just arrived in Lagny-sur-Marne, France, where she was to lead the French forces there against the English. It was there, in the midst of war, that the miracle occurred.
     
     According to her own testimony, she was called upon to join some other young women who were praying in a Church beseeching God and the Blessed Virgin Mary on behalf of a dead baby, that it might be revived long enough to baptize it. Here is Joan's own testimony

     "I was told that the girls of the town were gathered before the statue of our Lady and wanted me to come and pray to God and our Lady to bring a baby back to life. So I went and prayed with the others. And finally life appeared in him, and he yawned three times. Then he was baptized, and soon afterwords he died, and was buried in consecrated ground.
     
     For three days, I was told, he had shown no signs of life, and he was as black as my jacket. But when he yawned his color began to come back. And I was on my knees there with the other girls, praying before our Lady."

     
    Saint Peter Claver (died 1654 A.D.) and the event regarding Augustina >
    "When Father Claver arrived at her deathbed, Augustina lay cold to the touch, her body already being prepared for burial. He prayed at her bedside for one hour, when suddenly the woman sat up, vomited a pool of blood, and declared upon being questioned by those in attendance: ‘I have come from journeying along a long road. After I had gone a long way down it, I met a white man of great beauty who stood before me and said: Stop! You can go no further.’ ...

    On hearing this, Father Claver cleared the room and prepared to hear her Confession, thinking she was in need of absolution for some sin she may have forgotten. But in the course of the ritual, St. Peter Claver was inspired to realize that she had never been baptized.

    He cut short her confession and declined to give her absolution, calling instead for water with which to baptize her. Augustina’s master insisted that she could not possibly need baptism since she had been in his employ for twenty years and had never failed to go to Mass, Confession, and Communion all that time (Augustina's master must have thought that she had already been baptized). Nevertheless, Father Claver insisted on baptizing her, after which Augustina died again joyfully and peacefully in the presence of the whole family."
     
    Father Point >
     Fr. Point, S.J. was a fellow Jesuit Missionary to the Indians with Fr. De Smet in the 19th century. He tells a very interesting story about the miraculous resuscitation for baptism of a person who had been instructed in the Faith but apparently died without receiving the sacrament.

    Father Point, S.J., quoted in The Life of Fr. De Smet, pp. 165-166  >
     "One morning, upon leaving the Church I met an Indian woman, who said: ‘So-and-so is not well.’ She (the person who was not well) was not yet a catechumen and I said I would go to see her. An hour later the same person (who came and told him the person is not well), who was her sister, came to me saying she was dead. I ran to the tent, hoping she might be mistaken, and found a crowd of relatives around the bed, repeating, 'She is dead – she has not breathed for some time.' To assure myself, I leaned over the body; there was no sign of life. I reproved these excellent people for not telling me at once of the gravity of the situation, adding,


    'May God forgive me!’ Then, rather impatiently, I said, 'Pray!' and all fell on their knees and prayed devoutly.

    "I again leaned over the supposed corpse and said, 'The Black Robe is here: do you wish him to baptize you?' At the word baptism I saw a slight tremor of the lower lip; then both lips moved, making me certain that she understood. She had already been instructed, so I at once baptized her, and she rose from her bier, making the sign of the cross. Today she is out hunting and is fully persuaded that she died at the time I have recounted."



    Saint Francis De Sales, died 1622 A.D. >
     In the life of St. Francis De Sales we also find a child miraculously raised from the dead specifically for the Sacrament of Baptism.

    "A baby, the child of a heretic mother, had died without baptism. St. Francis had gone to speak to the mother about Catholic doctrine, and prayed that the child would be restored to life long enough to receive Baptism. His prayer was granted, and the whole family became Catholic."



     Saint Stephen, died c. 33 A.D. (through his intervention) >
     "At Uzale, a woman had an infant son… Unfortunately, he died before they had time to baptize him. His mother was overwhelmed with grief, more for his being deprived of Life Eternal than because he was dead to her. Full of confidence, she took the dead child and publicly carried him to the Church of St. Stephen, the first martyr. There she commenced to pray for the son she had just lost. Her son moved, uttered a cry, and was suddenly restored to life. She immediately brought him to the priests; and, after receiving the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation, he died anew."
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 04:21:14 AM »
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  • There are many other accounts of people being brought back from the dead just to be baptized then they die right after the baptism.

    There are also hundreds of thousands of authenticated Catholic accounts of people barely hanging onto life for long periods of time (the Indians of the Americas) till a missionary wandered by baptize them, then they died within minutes. You can read about it in Father De Smet's biography  The life of Father De Smet, The Apostle of the Rockiesand also in Isaac Jogues's biography Saint Among Savages: The Life of St. Isaac Jogues.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 07:52:33 AM »
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  • One must be of good will and not decieved, to hold true the Historical mythos of the Church.  Those who love the Church and believe in Christ find no obstacle and enter into these Mysteries as little children without guile or doubt.

    Offline Merry

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 08:45:39 AM »
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  • Yes - there are more stories than these.
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 09:37:16 AM »
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  • Strange how all these pious stories are considered infallible, but the stories that tell a different slant are not worth the words printed since they are "not infallible" as the Benedict Center or Diamond Bros. see it.  

    :facepalm:



    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 09:48:46 AM »
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  • Quote
    Strange how all these pious stories are considered infallible, but the stories that tell a different slant are not worth the words printed since they are "not infallible" as the Benedict Center or Diamond Bros. see it.  
    Considered infallible? That's a strawman.

    There are only like 3 stories in the whole history of the Church that keep being raised to the level of dogma about Jews being saved since the new dispensation. Meanwhile there are hundreds of thousands of accounts of people clinging to life for long periods of time, just to die minutes after baptism.    
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 09:57:42 AM »
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  • Great thread.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 09:58:58 AM »
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  • Strange how all these pious stories are considered infallible, but the stories that tell a different slant are not worth the words printed since they are "not infallible" as the Benedict Center or Diamond Bros. see it.  

    :facepalm:

    Quite the contrary, we don't consider any of these "infallible".  You, on the other hand, present your stories as dogmatic proof when they're not.  These are just illustrations of how God does arrange matters, sometimes even miraculously, to bring the Sacrament to His elect.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 11:38:10 AM »
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  • Yes, yes, I know ... we all know what you are doing!   

    Anything that suits your erroneous beliefs you put much weight. 

    But, continue to ridicule the other side   ;)





    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 12:27:00 PM »
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  • Yes, yes, I know ... we all know what you are doing!  

    Anything that suits your erroneous beliefs you put much weight.

    But, continue to ridicule the other side   ;)

    Yes, Our Lord taught error that no one could be saved unless they were born again of "water" (a word that the blasphemer LoT routinely ridicules, mocking the notion that water is necessary for salvation despite Our Lord's solemn teaching to that effect).

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 12:32:25 PM »
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  • Quote
    Anything that suits your erroneous beliefs you put much weight. 

    But, continue to ridicule the other side   
    What is "the other side"?

    Our side believes that dogmas are the final word on a subject of prior confusion. We simply quote the clear dogmas as they are written. 

    The "other side" believes that the theologians and Catholic writers interpret dogma, or at least they use that mix of theologians and other writers to conclude:

    that for instance these two dogmas mean that Jews, Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhist....etc can be saved by their belief in a rewarder god:

    Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:
    “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire ..and that nobody can be saved, … even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
     

    Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: “There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, …

    Of course, to our side that conclusion is insane.

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 12:39:57 PM »
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  • Yes, yes, I know ... we all know what you are doing!   

    Anything that suits your erroneous beliefs you put much weight.

    But, continue to ridicule the other side   ;)
    So, if you cut the crap, you're calling him a liar, opportunist, and pragmatist.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 12:52:51 PM »
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  • Anything that suits your erroneous beliefs you put much weight.

    On the contrary, I look at the entire body of evidence objectively.  I've never condemned anyone for believing in BoD.  I've condemned Pelagianism, denial of EENS, modernist ecclesiology, and heretical denial of Trent's dogmatic teaching that the Sacraments are necessary for salvation.  I've taken note of the fact that many theologians believe in BoD, but it's clear from the evidence that there's no proof for this opinion and that it's just their personal opinion, an opinion with which I disagree.  I have no issues with someone believing in BoD provided that they do not simultaneously undermine EENS, promote heretical ecclesiology, advocate Pelagianism, and deny the necessity of the Sacraments (even mockingly deriding them in language identical to that of the Protestants).  So far only two BoDers on CI (Arvinger and Nishant) have met these criteria.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 01:35:28 PM »
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  • To all of you ...


     uh huh!    :soapbox:

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: People needing baptism, raised from the dead, etc.
    « Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 01:48:20 PM »
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  • To all of you ...


    uh huh!    :soapbox:
    Your credibility just vanished in a puff of childish. It does save further wasted time, so thanks for that.
    "Lord, have mercy".

     

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