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Author Topic: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology  (Read 16324 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2021, 02:47:55 PM »
Not related to the "seal," but also interesting.

St. Irenaeus (mid second century).
Quote
For our bodies have received unity among themselves by means of that laver which leads to incorruption; but our souls by means of the Spirit. Wherefore both are necessary, since both contribute towards the life of God.

St. Irenaeus teaches that BOTH the laver (Tridentine language) AND the Spirit are necessary.  bod is described by its proponents as "Baptism of the Spirit" (flaminis) ... which has just the Spirit but not the water.

Poor St. Irenaeus.  He was condemned by Trent, which allegedly teaches that only one OR the other is necessary.  How could he have gotten this so wrong?

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2021, 02:53:36 PM »
St. Irenaeus again, in The Proof of Apostolic Preaching:
Quote
Now, this is what faith does for us, as the elders, the disciples of the apostles, have handed down to us. First of all, it admonishes us to remember that we have received baptism for the remission of sins in the name of God the Father, and in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became incarnate and died and raised, and in the Holy Spirit of God; and that this baptism is the seal of eternal life and is rebirth unto God, that we be no more children of mortal men, but of the eternal everlasting God.

As I have argued, the "seal" of Baptism is what renders us children by adoption of God (in our supernatural life), rather than of mortal men (our natural life) ... thus the second birth (into the supernatural life).


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2021, 03:01:49 PM »
St. Clement of Alexandria (3rd century):
Quote
This is the one grace of illumination, that our characters are not the same as before our washing.
...
Being baptized, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, we are made immortal. “I,” says He, “have said that you are gods, and all sons of the Highest.” This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing: washing, by which we cleanse away our sins; grace, by which the penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted; and illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld, that is, by which we see God clearly.

How can it get more clear?  

Here he explicitly ties "illumination" to the change of "character".  He speaks of multiple effects of Baptism, a washing and a change of character.

Then he goes on to define "illumination" as that "by which ... we see God clearly."

Illumination, the lumen gloriae, i.e. the Beatific Vision by which we "see God clearly" is tied directly to the change of character.

St Clement actually adds a third component to Baptism, distinguishing between the "washing," defined as a cleansing away of our sins, and then a separate thing he calls "grace," which he defines as remitting the temporal punishment due to sin as well ("penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted").

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2021, 03:14:57 PM »
Tertullian, On Baptism, written between A.D. 200 and 206.
Quote
When, however, the prescript is laid down that ‘without baptism, salvation is attainable by none’ (chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless one be born of water, he has not life’ [Jn. 3:5]” (chapter 12)

Here, then, those miscreants provoke questions. And so they say, “Baptism is not necessary for them to whom faith is sufficient; for withal, Abraham pleased God by a sacrament of no water, but of faith.” But in all cases it is the later things which have a conclusive force, and the subsequent which prevail over the antecedent. Grant that, in days gone by, there was salvation by means of bare faith, before the passion and resurrection of the Lord. But now that faith has been enlarged, and has become a faith which believes in His nativity, passion, and resurrection, there has been an amplification added to the sacrament, viz., the sealing act of baptism; the clothing, in some sense, of the faith which before was bare, and which cannot exist now without its proper law. For the law of baptizing has been imposed, and the formula prescribed: “Go,” He says, “teach the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” The comparison with this law of that definition, “Unless a man have been reborn of water and Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of the heavens,” has tied faith to the necessity of baptism

Tertullian rejects the argument that in the New Covenant "faith is sufficient" for salvation.  While valid in the OT, it's no longer valid because the "faith has been enlarged," with explicit belief now in "His nativity, passion, and resurrection" (i.e. explicit faith).  He ties this explicit faith to the "sealing act" (character) of Baptism.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2021, 03:20:22 PM »
Tertullian again in On the Resurrection of the Flesh:
Quote
[T]he flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed, in order that the soul may be cleansed; ... They cannot then be separated in their recompense, when they are united in their service.

He speaks about how washing of the flesh is the "very condition on which salvation hinges".  I'm not sure how that works with bod.