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Author Topic: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology  (Read 16323 times)

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2021, 02:52:23 PM »
Still though, if all these doctors and saints are hinting at an adult limbo, there should surely be quotes from at least some of them explicitly saying it, right?

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2021, 03:12:00 PM »
Still though, if all these doctors and saints are hinting at an adult limbo, there should surely be quotes from at least some of them explicitly saying it, right?

Why do you think I call it Ladislausian soteriology?

I'm building the case from the Fathers and from Sacred Scripture and applying various theological arguments.  What do you think that these doctors, saints, and theologians do?

Father Feeney came the closest, but he did not take the next steps.

I do not deny the existence of a BoB or even perhaps a BoD, but I apply the teaching of St. Ambrose and St. Gregory nαzιanzen, and Sacred Scripture, and an understand of what the character of Baptism does and what is role or function is in soteriology.

Even BoD proponents agree that BoD/BoB only supply the one effect of the Sacrament, namely, the remission of sins.  It does not supply the character of Baptism nor does it render the subject a member of the Church.

St. Ambrose refers to this as a "washing" without "crowning" ... even for martyred catechumens.

I hold that the crowning, the seal, what St. Gregory nαzιanzen calls "the glory" are essential to the Beatific Vision, which cannot be had without them.

Consequently, a martyred catechumen would have all his sins washed but still not enter the Beatific Vision.

ergo, an adult in Limbo

Now, the reason that unbaptized infants go to Limbo is because they have no actual sin.  But a martyred catechumen would have his actual sin washed away.

Not only that, but I hold that a martyred catechumen would have even a greater degree of natural happiness than an infant who died without Baptism.


Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2021, 03:13:17 PM »
adult limbo
I believe Dante put Saladin in adult limbo with the poets and the philosophers. 

Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2021, 03:22:00 PM »
In Mark 16:16, Our Lord says that those who believe AND are baptized will be saved, but that those who don't believe will be condemned.

What about those who believe but are not baptized?

He remains silent about them and does not reveal what happens to them.  But they are neither among the saved, nor among the condemned.
They go to a hell where they do not get beaten as much by the devils, a place like the swamps of Panama in the 1700's, where Spanish explorers would not even go close to shore because they would be eaten alive by the jejen (no see'ums, an almost invisible gnat who's bites itch more than Mosquito bites). No air conditioning, no mosquito screens. People lived there though.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Patristic Support for Ladilausian soteriology
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2021, 03:22:07 PM »
I believe Dante put Saladin in adult limbo with the poets and the philosophers.

Indeed he did.

Although the following is not a theological article, it states "When Dante Alighieri compiled his great medieval Who's Who of heroes and villains, the Divine Comedy, the highest a non-Christian could climb was Limbo."

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,36516,00.html