Author Topic: ordinary vs extraordinary means of salvation (Read 57345 times)

Deliveringit1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2010, 09:34:21 AM »

Quote from: Cristian

Quote from: Deliveringit1
Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Deliveringit1
...

a water baptized Catholic

A novel Feeneyite distinction.

Roman Catholic, you say its a novel Feeneyite distinction, but isn't Water Baptism an already established Dogmatic infallible teaching of the Church? Doesn't the Church already infallibly and dogmatically declare that Water Baptism is the only way by which a person can be brought into the Church? And doesn't the Church go on to infallibly and dogmatically declare that THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH ???

First of all you have to prove sir that the terms "inside the Church" (outside ths Church) and "member of the Church" (non-member of the Church) mean the same thing...

the Church has dogmatically taught,
Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, “Exultate Deo,” Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:* “Holy baptism, which is the gateway to the spiritual life, holds the first place among all the sacraments; through it we are made members of Christ and of the body of the Church.* And since death entered the universe through the first man, ‘unless we are born again of water and the Spirit we cannot,’ as the Truth says, ‘enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]. *The matter of this sacrament is real and natural water.” DZ 696

I have provided you just one infallible statement that Water Baptism is needed to become a member of the Catholic Church and that one must be a member of the Catholic Church to enter Heaven. There are many more infallible statements from past Popes and Councils that I can provide for you which makes the same case.

Cristian, now can any of you in this "TRADITIONAL" Catholic Forum provide any infallible dogmatic teachings from any past Popes and Councils which make the claim that Water Baptism is NOT necessary to become a member of the Church and that being a formal member of the Church is also NOT needed ???

SJB · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2010, 09:36:07 AM »

Deliver it somewhere else.

Deliveringit1 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2010, 09:39:58 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

You said a "water baptized Catholic" --- but the Church has never spoken in those terms. The Church has never made a distinction calling some people "water baptized Catholics" and calling other people who become Catholics through baptism of blood, "blood Catholics". Catholics are Catholics.

Roman Catholic, I have already posted the infallible teaching that only "WATER baptism" enables a person to become a member of the Catholic Church.

Now can you provide any infallible statements from any past Popes and/or Church Councils which make the case for an individual becoming a member through "Baptism of Blood"?

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2010, 09:41:55 AM »

The Roman Martyrology

And yes, deliver it somewhere else. Or put differently: from deliveringit, deliver us O Lord.

Deliveringit1 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2010, 09:43:51 AM »

Quote from: SJB

Deliver it somewhere else.

SJB, so you don't want me to post "Traditional dogmatic infallible Church statements" in this "Traditional" catholic Forum?