And:

 "All the misfortunes of unbelievers spring from too great an attachment to the things of life. This sickness of heart weakens and darkens the understanding, and leads to eternal ruin. If they would try to heal their hearts by purging them of their vices, they would soon receive light, which would show them the necessity of joining the Catholic Church, where alone is salvation. We should constantly thank the Lord for having granted us the gift of the true Faith, by associating us with the children of the Holy Catholic Church ... How many are the infidels, heretics, and schismatics who do not enjoy the happiness of the true Faith! Earth is full of them and they are all lost!"

3. Fr. Fenton's statement on this subject is well known.

Now most theologians teach that the minimum explicit content of supernatural and salvific faith includes, not only the truths of God’s existence and of His action as the Rewarder of good and the Punisher of evil, but also the mysteries of the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation.

This teaching, published in a reputed Catholic journal, the American Ecclesiastical Review in the 1950s, shows that even on practically the eve of the disastrous Council, the majority of the Catholic world still believed in this teaching consecrated by Tradition that the Catholic Faith was necessary for the salvation of all. Although not yet solemnly pronounced upon by the Magisterium, it is infallibly safe for all theologians to hold and teach it, since the Church has declared St. Alphonsus' work teaching it to be such. On account of the Magisterial texts cited above, under Clement XI and Pius X, this teaching is also irreformable and certainly definable by an extraordinary judgment of the Church in the future.

Please explain the text of Msgr. Fenton if you think otherwise. Finally, there are some knowledgeable traditional and other priests even today who hold and teach the same thing, that with the institution of the New Covenant, God established the Catholic Faith is a means without which no one is saved. Which brings me to the next point.

4. Just one other thing, you vehemently opposed Pope Francis when he said Jews can still please God and be saved in their religion, just like Muslims and others, nothing at all different from what JPII or Pope Benedict had said. This you took as incontrovertible proof that he was a formal and notorious heretic, and not Pope. But what is substantially different, pray tell, from that perverse opinion and what you believe?

Trust me when I say it will be possible indefinitely to multiply testimonies from the greatest traditional authorities, from the Apostolic age to the present, in proof that no one is saved without the Catholic Faith.

Though I do not agree with what you've said on this subject in this thread, I've read both the Devil's Final Battle, and some of your interviews and works in the Fatima Crusader, Father Kramer. I still think you are a good man, a good priest, who desires to be a faithful servant of Our Lady.

I will cite one last testimony, from one of the greatest Marian Apostles of all time, sent by God to teach us the truths of True Devotion and Marian Consecration necessary for the Age of Mary to come, who also teaches that no one is saved without knowing and loving the true God, Our Lord Jesus Christ.

“My heart is penetrated with grief when I think of the almost infinite number of souls who are damned for lack of knowing the true God and the Christian religion.  The greatest misfortune, O my God, is not to know Thee, and the greatest of punishments not to love Thee ...

The knowledge of Jesus Christ is the science of Christians and the science of salvation; it surpasses, says Saint Paul, all human sciences in value and perfection ...Because of its necessity; for no one can be saved without the knowledge of Jesus Christ, while a person who knows absolutely nothing of any other science will be saved as long as he is enlightened by the knowledge of Jesus Christ.”

Be a good and faithful apostle of Our Lady yourself, Father Kramer. Hold most firmly and without the slightest doubt to this teaching and teach it to those under your care, and Almighty God and His Holy Mother will reward you for it.

Thanks again for flushing this out, Nishant.  BoD is not the issue here; it's the USE of BoD to promote the notion that salvation is possible without Catholic faith.  BoD gets deliberately CONFLATED with this issue by both sides of the argument.  Most modern BoD proponents use BoD for no other reason than to promote the idea that infidels can be saved.  It's all about EENS.  Father Feeney and the SBC (vs. Dimond) school of "Feeneyism" would be the first to state this.  None of us could care less if someone held BoD in the way you hold it, Nishant.  I have absolutely no problem with your position.  I don't agree with it 100%, but I would never go after you for it or attack you for it or declare your a heretic.  My issue is with the neo-Pelagians.  Someone like yourself could actually serve as an ambassador for BoD, whereas the Pelagian BoDers cause us to recoil in horror.

Yet, LoT, SJB and I have told you over and over again that supernatural Faith is necessary, along with perfect charity, and at least an implicit desire to join the Church, and you would not hear it.

Now Nishant says the very same thing, and you finally get it.  

It seems to me that Dom Paulo (don't think I missed that you broke Matthews rules by using real names) is holding the tolerated minority view, which I believe is mistaken, but has been permitted by Rome.  

Quote from: Ambrose

Yet, LoT, SJB and I have told you over and over again that supernatural Faith is necessary, along with perfect charity, and at least an implicit desire to join the Church, and you would not hear it.

No, you guys believe in a merely infused supernatural faith (along the lines of what a baptized infant has) without explicit belief in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation; that's how you posit that infidels can be saved.  You have paid lip service to the idea that Catholic faith is necessary for salvation but then redefine faith.  I think I spent an entire 100-page thread arguing against LoT about this.  Same thing with you and SJB.  You declare the need for supernatural faith, but then 3 posts later are talking about the invincibly ignorant savage who can be saved by BoD.

Quote

It seems to me that Dom Paulo (don't think I missed that you broke Matthews rules by using real names) is holding the tolerated minority view, which I believe is mistaken, but has been permitted by Rome.  

Wrong.  It's heresy.  1600 years of unanimous belief by every Catholic from the beginning of the Church constitutes a dogmatic teaching of the Ordinary Universal Magisterium.  Failure to explicitly condemn does not mean active "permission".

Untrue.  All of us that have answered you, Lot, SJB, and myself have told you repeatedly and constantly that supernatural Faith is necessary for salvation.  I have told you and others on here time and time again, that I believe the four conditions as explained by St. Thomas for the minimum Faith necessary for salvation.  

Every time I state this to you, your blinders prevent you from reading clear and explicit words. It's as though you want me to believe the minority view so I can fit into your caricature of your opponents.

Regarding the minority view, it's not heresy, it remains unsettled by the Magisterium.  Real Pope's don't sit idly by as theologians publish heresy for centuries and let it go.  The position was permitted tacitly by Rome since it was not heretical.  

All, except heretics, believe that supernatural Faith is necessary for salvation, the only area of disagreement is what the minimum is.  

The theory of "invincible ignorance" being salvific was first speculated in the times of conquistadores regarding the natives by Andreas de Vega; but this theory was actually rejected by the Magisterium.

Pope Innocent XI in XVII century condemned the following proposition which implied that one could be saved without supernatural faith: "A faith amply indicated from the testimony of creation, or from a similar motive, suffices for justification".  As St. Paul taught, "if salvation were possible by the Mosaic Law, or by the natural law as well, then "Christ died in vain"!

During the missions in XVIII century, the Holy Office responded to an inquiry from the bishop of Quebec:

Question: Whether it is possible for a crude and uneducated adult, as it might be with a barbarian, to be baptized, if there were given to him only an understanding of God and some of His attributes, especially His justice in rewarding and punishing, according to this remark of the Apostle: “He that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder”, from which it is to be inferred that a barbarian adult in a certain case of urgent necessity, can be baptized even though he does not explicitly believe in Jesus Christ.

Response: A missionary should not baptize one who does not explicitly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but is bound to instruct him about all those matters which are necessary, by a necessity of means, in accordance with the capacity of the one to be baptized"

To an additional inquiry the Holy Office responded, that even an adult Indian at the point of death, must make an act of faith in the Trinity and the Incarnation before he could be baptized.

Yes, the Holy Office required this act of explicit Faith prior to sacramental Baptism.  This does not mean that the question of the minimum amount of Faith necessary for salvation is settled.

I agree that when the Church permits two opinions (think of for example the opinion of Cajetan on the Pope question, or the relative novelty of Molinism on free will and grave vis-a-vis Molinism), we cannot call the other group heretics. But the teaching that God established the divine and Catholic Faith - which necessarily includes explicitly at least the Trinity and Incarnation -  it is certainly definable and is arguably irreformable

Great and glorious was that Holy Roman Church that spoke in this way to the Armenian and Greek schismatic "Orthodox" under Pope Clement VI.

"In the second place, we ask whether you and the Armenians obedient to you believe that no man of the wayfarers outside of the Faith of this Church, and outside the obedience of the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved… In the ninth place, if you have believed and do believe that all who have raised themselves against the Faith of the Roman Church and have died in final impenitence have been damned and have descended to the eternal punishments of hell."

This was required of them in their Profession of Faith. There are few greater weapons the Church has in Her armory than the sacred dogma of EENS, in that same sense as She has always taught it and everywhere understood it, and consequently none feared so much by the enemies of the Church, who desire nothing more than that She either cease to preach it, or at least water it down.

This Creed shows that even faith in the Trinity and Incarnation profits nothing either if a single article of the divine and Catholic Faith is denied, as all heretics do, or the unity of Faith under Peter is not preserved, as all schismatics do.

When one undertakes a study of what Tradition and the Magisterium have said on this subject, including in countless sacred creeds consecrated by antiquity and ecclesiastical approbation, one sees the clear emphasis on the necessity of the Catholic Faith for salvation.

This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved… I now profess and truly hold…”

 

“This faith of the Catholic Church, without which no one can be saved, and which of my own accord I now profess and truly hold…”

The same is seen in the profession of Faith used during the reception of converts, and of course, there is that most ancient of Creeds, the Athanasian Creed, that most marvelously shows us the testimony of Tradition on this subject.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled,without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance ... Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he alsobelieve rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.

Whoever wants to try and explain this away, let him. But as for those who say they are traditional Catholics, they should hold it as Tradition has always and everywhere taught it.

So, Nishant, based on your principles, is Feeneyism "heresy"?