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Author Topic: No BOB or BOD in Baltimore Catechism #1  (Read 5544 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: No BOB or BOD in Baltimore Catechism #1
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2023, 09:36:32 PM »
Quote from: moneil on July 16, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
I'm not certain how this is relevant, unless one can demonstrate that Questions 321 - 323 were added to the 1885 edition and not part of the original complete edition.

That's precisely my point.  Someone produced a copy of the 1885 edition that didn't have BoB/BoD in it.

But, in a sense, you're right, it doesn't matter.  Some Catechisms before Vatican I rejected papal infallibility also.
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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: No BOB or BOD in Baltimore Catechism #1
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2023, 10:41:19 PM »
Quote from: moneil on July 16, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
Can nothing supply the place of Baptism by water?
When Baptism by water cannot be had it may be replaced by the Baptism of desire or by the Baptism of blood.
A very problematic statement as the sacrament is necessary for salvation. And the matter is pure and natural water.

Blood and desire are not sacraments. So they cannot replace water baptism.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: No BOB or BOD in Baltimore Catechism #1
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2023, 11:14:47 PM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on July 16, 2023, 10:41:19 PM
A very problematic statement as the sacrament is necessary for salvation. And the matter is pure and natural water.

Blood and desire are not sacraments. So they cannot replace water baptism.

Indeed, very poorly worded.  Should read something along the lines of, "When Baptism cannot be received by water, it can be received through desire or blood."  There's only one Baptism, and it cannot be replaced, and if one believes in BoD/BoB, they must be considered different modes or means of receiving the one Baptism.
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Offline SimpleMan

Re: No BOB or BOD in Baltimore Catechism #1
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2023, 11:37:25 PM »
Quote from: moneil on July 16, 2023, 08:59:27 PM
For everyone's information, the Baltimore Catechism is available in four editions, TAN Books offers all four.

Baltimore Catechism #1 has 33 lessons and is typically used for 2nd (First Communion) through 5th grade.
Baltimore Catechism #2 has 37 lessons and is typically used for 6th through 9th grade, including those preparing for Confirmation.
Baltimore Catechism #3 has 37 lessons and is intended for those who have been Confirmed and/or are in high school or older.
#4, An Explanation of the Baltimore Catechism, is often used as a "teacher's manual" for those teaching catechism, and as a reference work.

Baltimore Catechism #1 is a more basic, simplified version of the original catechism.  Both my copy of #3 (Confraternity Edition published by Benziger Brothers) and #2 (available on the CMRI website), in Question 321, teach Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire.

My one criticism of the BC is that it is really, really scanty on moral theology, and doesn't do any kind of "deep dive" into various kinds of sins, it just speaks in broad generalities.  We've used BC2 and BC3 (just completed the latter) in homeschool religion class, and I've had to supplement it with an enumeration of various sins (especially ones against the Sixth and Ninth Commandments).   Any youngster needs to know what kinds of sins there are, so as not to fall into bad habits unknowingly ("I didn't realize that was a sin").  You can't avoid a sin if you don't know what it is.

I got the BC4 to use a kind of advanced text, but I've been disappointed in it, for the same reasons.  I got the Fr Laux books (Books 1/2/3) instead.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: No BOB or BOD in Baltimore Catechism #1
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2023, 04:26:51 AM »
Quote from: moneil on July 16, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
I'm not certain how this is relevant, unless one can demonstrate that Questions 321 - 323 were added to the 1885 edition and not part of the original complete edition.


I have another catechism titled A Catechism of the Catholic Religion, translated from the German of Rev. Joesph Deharbe, S.J. and published by The Catholic Publication Society in 1878.  The Imprimatur is from John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York.

Its Question Number 549 reads:
Here is a news paper article from 1949. Although it does not go into much detail, the article states the new catechism now teaches that those outside the Church can now be saved.

This simply demonstrates that the catechism is a text book, like any other text book, in the sense that it's authors can put in it whatever they want and revise it as often as they want to teach whatever they want.

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