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Author Topic: New video from mhfm  (Read 7517 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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New video from mhfm
« on: April 05, 2023, 10:53:46 PM »
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  • I know they are a controversial group and I don't agree with them on everything, but I do appreciate many of their more 'educational' videos. There is honestly no other traditional Catholics (or groups) who make useful and easy to digest content, though sometimes there can be poison in them.

    "in many of those circles, you can just simply cite papal teaching on outside the church there is no salvation and they will react by saying quote "feeneyite", a very inaccurate term"

    It's true. Whether you are speaking to these 'trad' priests or the laypeople it's always the same response. "Feeneyite" or misunderstanding fallible teachings of Saints to deny EENS.

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #1 on: April 06, 2023, 02:10:35 PM »
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  • They aren't when listening to. They are deceptive.
    One day at a time.


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #2 on: April 06, 2023, 07:01:49 PM »
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  • They aren't when listening to. They are deceptive.
    What do you mean?

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #3 on: April 06, 2023, 07:25:06 PM »
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  • What do you mean?

    They quote mine. They will even quote sources that explicitly teach against them in a way that makes it appear that the source supports them. You can't really trust anything they say, because they are very good at lying by omission and manipulating perception.
    One day at a time.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #4 on: April 06, 2023, 07:28:17 PM »
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  • They quote mine. They will even quote sources that explicitly teach against them in a way that makes it appear that the source supports them. You can't really trust anything they say, because they are very good at lying by omission and manipulating perception.

    You seem a bit incoherent here, first with your original post and then what is:  "They quote mine."?

    This is completely untrue.  Some of their argument are, IMO, faulty, but they don't distort anything, certainly not on purpose (vs. misreading or misinterpreting something).  It's one thing to misinterpret something and quite another to distort the sources and lie about them.  That's bording on slander to make that assertion without evidence.

    To me, "deceptive" is when modern-day "Trads" hold that the dogma EENS means the opposite of what it says and that you're a heretic if you actually believe what it says and not the opposite of what it says.


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #5 on: April 06, 2023, 08:34:29 PM »
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  • Years ago I was reading something from them (this was before youtube--or, at least, before they were posting on youtube) and they quoted Saint Thomas Aquinas to "prove" someone's heresy.  It was so long ago, I don't remember the subject or the subject of their wrath.  Since I have a copy of the Summa, I looked it up--at least they provided the citation.  I don't think they expected people to look up the citation to see the context and full explanation from St. Thomas.  It turned out that they were quoting the Objection, that is, part of the explanation that St. Thomas then answered to prove it wrong.  I stopped paying much attention to them after that.

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #6 on: April 06, 2023, 10:28:33 PM »
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  • You seem a bit incoherent here, first with your original post and then what is:  "They quote mine."?

    This is completely untrue.  Some of their argument are, IMO, faulty, but they don't distort anything, certainly not on purpose (vs. misreading or misinterpreting something).  It's one thing to misinterpret something and quite another to distort the sources and lie about them.  That's bording on slander to make that assertion without evidence.

    To me, "deceptive" is when modern-day "Trads" hold that the dogma EENS means the opposite of what it says and that you're a heretic if you actually believe what it says and not the opposite of what it says.


    Definitely not slander because they do it. Griff Ruby has a big article on his site showing their manipulative uses of sources, for starters. I confirmed it on my own. They take things out of context.

    They do lie and distort sources. You can be their fan, doesn't change the facts.

    And as far as trads and EENS, 2 wrongs don't make a right so that doesn't have any bearing on the Dimonds anyway.
    One day at a time.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #7 on: April 07, 2023, 08:21:47 AM »
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  • Definitely not slander because they do it. 

    Absolutely slander.  Ruby is about as biased a source as you can get, a dogmatic BoDer, buddies with our own Lover of Heresy.

    I've never seen any intentional distortion on their part.  Period.  I've seen misinterpretation and reading things into a source that weren't necessarily there, but then I see more of that on the BoDers side.  Misinterpretation of something is not the same thing as your slanderous accusation of deception and lying. 


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #8 on: April 07, 2023, 08:24:22 AM »
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  • They do lie and distort sources. You can be their fan, doesn't change the facts.

    No, they do not "lie" and "deceive" and DELIBERATELY distort sources.  That's a slander you need to retract.  As for your claim that I am a "fan", I've been directly attached by the Dimond Brothers by e-mail.  I'm only a fan of truth, and your accusations of lying, deception, and deliberate distortion are slanderous.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #9 on: April 07, 2023, 08:28:37 AM »
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  • Years ago I was reading something from them (this was before youtube--or, at least, before they were posting on youtube) and they quoted Saint Thomas Aquinas to "prove" someone's heresy.  It was so long ago, I don't remember the subject or the subject of their wrath.  Since I have a copy of the Summa, I looked it up--at least they provided the citation.  I don't think they expected people to look up the citation to see the context and full explanation from St. Thomas.  It turned out that they were quoting the Objection, that is, part of the explanation that St. Thomas then answered to prove it wrong.  I stopped paying much attention to them after that.

    There's a huge difference between a mistake and a lie or distortion or deliberate deception.  Simply because someone makes a mistake, I won't stop paying attention.  Father Cekada has made several egregious mistakes on various issues, and yet I'll still read what he writes, because he often makes good points also.  To ignore people simply because they make a mistake is childish and speaks to someone who has already made up his mind about an issue or else is engaging in childish vindictiveness.  Father Cekada has ridiculed me publicly, but I still praise the good work he's done.  You might be more likely to find the truth if you're actually open to it in the first place.  Archbishop Lefebvre has made mistakes.  Bishop Williamson has made mistakes, and yet I still listen to everything he writes.  We're all human, and I know of no Trad writer who's infallible and error-free.  But there's a huge chasm between being mistaken on something and deliberate lying, distortion, and deception.  Now, there can be a distortion that's caused by wanting to see something in a text that isn't there, but it's still not a conscious or deliberate thing for most people.  On the other hand, when someone uses ellipses where the excised portion completely undermines what they claim the passage proves (like Father Laisney about BoD or Bishop Kelly arguing the invalidity of the +Thuc line), that's a sign of dishonesty, distortion, and deception.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #10 on: April 07, 2023, 08:34:37 AM »
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  • There's nothing too new in this video.  It's just another passage from a Pope reaffirming EENS dogma, and then going after the Trads and Trad groups who don't accept EENS (this isn't even about BoD per se), such as SSPX, CMRI, Bishop Sanborn, et al., which they've done several times in other videos.


    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #11 on: April 07, 2023, 08:38:04 AM »
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  • On the other hand, when someone uses ellipses where the excised portion completely undermines what they claim the passage proves (like Father Laisney about BoD or Bishop Kelly arguing the invalidity of the +Thuc line), that's a sign of dishonesty, distortion, and deception.

    That's exactly what the Dimonds do. 
    One day at a time.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #12 on: April 07, 2023, 08:49:13 AM »
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  • They quote mine. They will even quote sources that explicitly teach against them in a way that makes it appear that the source supports them. You can't really trust anything they say, because they are very good at lying by omission and manipulating perception.
    Well said.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #13 on: April 07, 2023, 08:53:03 AM »
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  • That's exactly what the Dimonds do.

    No they don't.  You're just going to double down on your slander.  Shame on you.

    Offline Vanguard

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    Re: New video from mhfm
    « Reply #14 on: April 07, 2023, 11:24:30 AM »
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  • I agree with you Ladislaus, I have read and watched many of the Dimonds articles and videos and they have a great record for trying to explain the Catholic faith in an easy to understand way and with much docuмentation.

     They have had some learning curve and perhaps initially were a bit acidic in their responses, but like us all have mellowed with age and are a very good source for Catholic material.

     I personally have yet to find any evidence of them trying to purposefully distort the truth. I don’t have a theological background but I usually understand the arguments that they are making and they are very logical.