Author Topic: Nascent Feeney, Reply to a Liberal (Read 1359 times)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2014, 08:26:26 AM »

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When Pope Leo the Great said, "no one can be set free from the state of the old Adam save through Christ's sacrament of baptism," he was not talking about what it takes to be baptized nor was he exploring such details as to whether the sacrament of baptism must actually have been procured or whether the mere seeking of it might have sufficed in the cases of those who do not live long enough to attain it.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #11 on:** September 16, 2014, 11:26:56 AM »

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We have already seen how Tertullian has spoken at length about BOB, and even hinted at a possibility of BOD - Installments 9 and 10a. And we have also seen what St. Thomas Aquinas had to say about BOB and BOD at length, despite the presence of some other quotes from him that, not getting into the details of BOB and BOD, would be used in the Reply piece to imply that he denied BOB and BOD - Installment 7. And of course it is obvious that Pope Benedict XIV and St. Robert Bellarmine are both defending the necessity of baptism in general, without breaking it out into baptism of water, BOB, and BOD, in exactly the same sense that the Council of Trent said that Baptism is necessary for salvation, but not "the sacrament of Baptism" alone specifically, as falsely claimed by Peter Dimond - Installment 12c.

JPaul · « **Reply #12 on:** September 16, 2014, 01:35:11 PM »

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We have already seen how Tertullian has spoken at length about BOB, and even hinted at a possibility of BOD

Transmission of the Faith by "hints".............what a great idea!........ :applause:

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2014, 02:04:47 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

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We have already seen how Tertullian has spoken at length about BOB, and even hinted at a possibility of BOD

Transmission of the Faith by "hints".............what a great idea!........ :applause:

When did I say I was transmitting the faith by hints. But I'm glad you finally understand that BOD and BOB are part of Catholic doctrine.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2014, 11:42:29 AM »

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Now as we know, children who die before attaining the use of reason and without the sacrament of Baptism, apart from the Holy Innocents and what few if any others in all of history might somehow belong to that same category, cannot see the Beatific Vision. It is this teaching of the Church that the Reply piece had just finished talking about when it then stated that "what St. Robert says about children applies to adults as well, for, even though some of them could die unbaptized because they never heard of Christ, and hence without being guilty of this ignorance, yet these will perish eternally because they have original sin and because of their actual sins." Now some have wondered, if infants who die innocent of any sin can be deprived of the Beatific Vision, why or how should it be at all possible that adults (who being born sinners will necessarily not be without sins of their own, at least venial ones) could ever be permitted a Baptism of Desire? But the answer is quite simple, since the "Baptism of Desire" is no mere passive lack of sin (or at least of any serious sin), but a positive choice made, as a choice such that only one with the use of reason would be capable of it, namely to seek to serve their Creator.