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Author Topic: Miraculous Baptisms  (Read 111550 times)

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Offline WorldsAway

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Miraculous Baptisms
« on: November 17, 2025, 07:06:49 PM »
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  • (Taken from Outside The Church There is Absolutely No Salvation, Bro. Peter Dimond)

    There would be no need for God to save anyone by baptism of blood (or “baptism of desire”), since He can keep any sincere souls alive until they are baptized, as we saw with the case of St. Alban and the converted guard. St. Martin of Tours brought back to life a catechumen who had died so that he could baptize him. St. Joan of Arc brought back to life a dead infant so that she could baptize him. There were many similar miracles. One striking example is said to have occurred in the life of St. Peter himself. While he was chained to a pillar in the Mamertine prison in Rome, he baptized two of his guards, Processus and Martinian, with water which miraculously sprang up from the ground within hands distance from St. Peter. These guards were also jailed with St. Peter and were to undergo execution the next day because they were converts. Their desire for baptism (baptism of desire) and their martyrdom for the faith (baptism of blood) weren’t going to be enough. They needed to be baptized with “water and the Holy Ghost” (Jn. 3:5). And God saw that they truly desired the Sacrament, so He provided it miraculously.

         History also records that St. Patrick – who himself raised over 40 people from the dead – raised a number of people from the dead specifically in order to baptize them, something which was totally unnecessary if one can be saved without baptism. As one scholar notes,


    Quote
    “In all, St. Patrick brought to life some forty infidels in Ireland, one of whom was King Echu… On raising him from the dead, St. Patrick instructed and baptized him, asking what he had seen of the other world. King Echu told how he had actually beheld the throne prepared for him in Heaven because of his life of being open to the grace of Almighty God, but that he was not allowed to enter precisely because he was as yet unbaptized. After receiving the sacraments… (he) died instantly and went to his reward.”

    The same scholar further notes:


    Quote
    “Many such saints have been recorded as resurrecting grown-ups specifically and exclusively for the Sacrament of Baptism, including St. Peter Claver, St. Winifred of Wales, St. Julian of Mans, St. Eleutherius, and others. But even more have raised up little infants for the sacrament of salvation: St. Gregory nαzιanz… St. Hilary… St. Elizabeth… St. Colette… St. Frances of Rome… St. Joan of Arc… St. Philip Neri… St. Francis Xavier… St. Gildas… St. Gerard Majella… to name a few.”


             One of the more interesting cases is the story of Augustina, the slave girl, which is related in the life of St. Peter Claver, a Jesuit missionary in 17th century Colombia.


    Quote
    “When Father Claver arrived at her deathbed, Augustina lay cold to the touch, her body already being prepared for burial. He prayed at her bedside for one hour, when suddenly the woman sat up, vomited a pool of blood, and declared upon being questioned by those in attendance: ‘I have come from journeying along a long road. After I had gone a long way down it, I met a white man of great beauty who stood before me and said: Stop! You can go no further.’… On hearing this, Father Claver cleared the room and prepared to hear her Confession, thinking she was in need of absolution for some sin she may have forgotten. But in the course of the ritual, St. Peter Claver was inspired to realize that she had never been baptized. He cut short her confession and declined to give her absolution, calling instead for water with which to baptize her. Augustina’s master insisted that she could not possibly need baptism since she had been in his employ for twenty years and had never failed to go to Mass, Confession, and Communion all that time. Nevertheless, Father Claver insisted on baptizing her, after which Augustina died again joyfully and peacefully in the presence of the whole family.”


     The great “Apostle of the Rocky Mountains,” Fr. Pierre De Smet, who was the extraordinary missionary to the American Indians in the 19th century, was also a witness – as were his fellow Jesuit missionaries – of many people coming to baptism under miraculous circuмstances.

     
    Fr. De Smet, Dec. 18, 1839:
    Quote
    “I have often remarked that many of the children seem to await baptism before winging their flight to heaven, for they die almost immediately after receiving the sacrament.” 


     Fr. De Smet, Dec. 9, 1845:
    Quote
    “… over a hundred children and eleven old people were baptized. Many of the latter [the old people], who were carried on buffalo hides, seemed only to await this grace before going to rest in the bosom of God.”


     On this point the reader will also want to look at the section on St. Isaac Jogues and St. Francis Xavier later in this docuмent.

         In the life of the extraordinary Irish missionary St. Columbanus (+ 543-615 A.D.), we read of a similar story of God’s providence getting all good willed souls to baptism.


    Quote
    “[Columbanus said]: ‘My sons, today you will see an ancient Pictish chief, who has faithfully kept the precepts of the Natural Law all his life, arrive on this island; he comes to be baptized and to die.’ Immediately, a boat was seen to approach with a feeble old man seated in the prow who was recognized as chief of one of the neighboring tribes. Two of his companions brought him before the missionary, to whose words he listened attentively. The old man asked to be baptized, and immediately thereafter breathed out his last breath and was buried on the very spot.”

         Father Point, S.J. was a fellow Jesuit Missionary to the Indians with Fr. De Smet in the 19th century. He tells a very interesting story about the miraculous resuscitation for Baptism of a person who had been instructed in the Faith but apparently died without receiving the sacrament.

    Father Point, S.J., quoted in The Life of Fr. De Smet, pp. 165-166:
    Quote
    “One morning, upon leaving the church I met an Indian woman, who said: ‘So-and-so is not well.’ She [the person who was not well] was not yet a catechumen and I said I would go to see her. An hour later the same person [who came and told him the person is not well], who was her sister, came to me saying she was dead. I ran to the tent, hoping she might be mistaken, and found a crowd of relatives around the bed, repeating, ‘She is dead – she has not breathed for some time.’ To assure myself, I leaned over the body; there was no sign of life. I reproved these excellent people for not telling me at once of the gravity of the situation, adding, ‘May God forgive me!’ Then, rather impatiently, I said, ‘Pray!’ and all fell on their knees and prayed devoutly.

         “I again leaned over the supposed corpse and said, ‘The Black Robe is here: do you wish him to baptize you?’ At the word baptism I saw a slight tremor of the lower lip; then both lips moved, making me certain that she understood. She had already been instructed, so I at once baptized her, and she rose from her bier, making the sign of the cross. Today she is out hunting and is fully persuaded that she died at the time I have recounted.”


         This is another example of a person who had already been instructed in the Faith but had to be miraculously resuscitated specifically for the Sacrament of Baptism, and the miraculous resuscitation occurred at the moment that the priest pronounced the word “Baptism.” 

         In the life of St. Francis De Sales we also find a child miraculously raised from the dead specifically for the Sacrament of Baptism.


    Quote
    “A baby, the child of a Protestant mother, had died without Baptism. St. Francis had gone to speak to the mother about Catholic doctrine, and prayed that the child would be restored to life long enough to receive Baptism. His prayer was granted, and the whole family became Catholic.”


         St. Francis De Sales himself summed up the beautifully simple truth on this issue in the following manner, when he was discoursing against the Protestant heretics.

    St. Francis De Sales (Doctor of the Church), The Catholic Controversy, c. 1602, pp. 156-157:
    Quote
    “The way in which one deduces an article of faith is this: the Word of God is infallible; the Word of God declares that Baptism is necessary for salvation; therefore Baptism is necessary for salvation.”


         Here is another description of an infant child who died without the Sacrament of Baptism and was raised from the dead through the intercession of St. Stephen.


    Quote
    “At Uzale, a woman had an infant son… Unfortunately, he died before they had time to baptize him. His mother was overwhelmed with grief, more for his being deprived of Life Eternal than because he was dead to her. Full of confidence, she took the dead child and publicly carried him to the Church of St. Stephen, the first martyr. There she commenced to pray for the son she had just lost. Her son moved, uttered a cry, and was suddenly restored to life. She immediately brought him to the priests; and, after receiving the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation, he died anew.”


         In the Acts of the Apostles alone we find three miraculous interventions involving Baptism – Cornelius the Centurion, the Eunuch of Candace, and Saul of Tarsus. And in each case not only is God’s Providence evident, but the individuals involved are obliged to be baptized with water even though their intention to do the will of God is clear.

         The fact is that God will keep any sincere soul alive until Baptism; He is Almighty and He has decreed that no one enters heaven without Baptism.

    Pope Pius IX, Vatican I, ex cathedra:
    Quote
    “God protects and governs by His providence all things which He has created, ‘reaching from end to end mightily and ordering all things sweetly’...”


         In fact, the first infallible definition stating that the elect see the Beatific Vision immediately after death was from Pope Benedict XII in Benedictus Deus. It is interesting to examine what he infallibly declares about the saints and martyrs who went to Heaven.

    Pope Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus, 1336, ex cathedra, on the souls of the just receiving the Beatific Vision:
    Quote
    “By this edict which will prevail forever, with apostolic authority we declare… the holy apostles, the martyrs, the confessors, virgins, and the other faithful who died after the holy baptism of Christ had been received by them, in whom there was nothing to be purged… and the souls of children departing before the use of free will, reborn and baptized in the same baptism of Christ, when all have been baptized… have been, are, and will be in heaven…”


         In defining that the elect (including the martyrs) in whom nothing is to be purged are in heaven, Pope Benedict XII mentions three times that they have been baptized. Obviously, no apostle, martyr, confessor or virgin could receive the Beatific Vision without having received Baptism according to this infallible dogmatic definition.

     
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #1 on: November 17, 2025, 10:51:10 PM »
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  • These examples are very consoling and were very instructive to the pagans and protestants who witnessed them. They show the great mercy of God.
    However, we have examples of mercy that are yet greater still. We have examples of canonized saints who were miraculously baptized, who  definitely did not receive water baptism; St. Dismas and the Holy Innocents first of all, and many others.

    We must have these examples so that no one of good will may despair. An atheist flying a plane solo and about to crash need only make an act of Faith to save his soul. A commie solider in Siberia who is instantly shot for refusing to shoot a priest will not be abandoned by the very Grace that stayed him.


    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #2 on: November 18, 2025, 04:40:53 AM »
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  • These examples are very consoling and were very instructive to the pagans and protestants who witnessed them. They show the great mercy of God.
    However, we have examples of mercy that are yet greater still. We have examples of canonized saints who were miraculously baptized, who  definitely did not receive water baptism; St. Dismas and the Holy Innocents first of all, and many others.

    We must have these examples so that no one of good will may despair. An atheist flying a plane solo and about to crash need only make an act of Faith to save his soul. A commie solider in Siberia who is instantly shot for refusing to shoot a priest will not be abandoned by the very Grace that stayed him.
    St Dismas and the Holy Innocents died before the Church was established and baptism became necessary. Where did you find the two other examples?  

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #3 on: November 18, 2025, 04:41:57 AM »
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  •  We have examples of canonized saints who were miraculously baptized, who  definitely did not receive water baptism; St. Dismas and the Holy Innocents first of all, and many others.
    I don't believe we have any such examples, where it can be proven that any particular saint (after Our Lord's Passion) died without receiving the Sacrament of Baptism. St. Dismas and the Holy Innocents died before the institution of the Church and the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism for salvation 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #4 on: November 18, 2025, 04:48:50 AM »
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  • These examples are very consoling and were very instructive to the pagans and protestants who witnessed them. They show the great mercy of God.
    However, we have examples of mercy that are yet greater still. We have examples of canonized saints who were miraculously baptized, who  definitely did not receive water baptism; St. Dismas and the Holy Innocents first of all, and many others.

    We must have these examples so that no one of good will may despair. An atheist flying a plane solo and about to crash need only make an act of Faith to save his soul. A commie solider in Siberia who is instantly shot for refusing to shoot a priest will not be abandoned by the very Grace that stayed him.

    False.  Same old lies repeated and nauseam by those who deny the necessity of the Sacrament.  Dismas and Holy Innocents died before Baptism had been made obligatory.  Dismas clearly went to Limbo of the Fathers since on "this day" the gates of actual Heaven had not been opened yet.

    You just make up nonsense about plane-flying atheists and Commies while denying that God's Providence can easily arrange circuмstances so that His elect receive the Sacrament.  So, let me get this straight.  If such were not the case, then it would be God's grace abandoning someone, right?  Not that the individual had abandoned God's grace working in his life and that's why he died without Baptism?  BoDers border on blasphemy where they claim that WE limit God by His Sacraments even while they limit him with "impossibility".  They literally try to gaslight God Himself ... "well, if you don't make a BoD then you wouldn't be Merciful".  Same "theological" framework as the Modernists.  If God condemned these nice sodomites, He "wouldn't be Merciful".

    These examples were not simply to "console" ... but to confirm what our Lord taught about the necessity of Baptism.


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #5 on: November 18, 2025, 04:49:49 AM »
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  • These examples are very consoling and were very instructive to the pagans and protestants who witnessed them. They show the great mercy of God.
    However, we have examples of mercy that are yet greater still. We have examples of canonized saints who were miraculously baptized, who  definitely did not receive water baptism; St. Dismas and the Holy Innocents first of all, and many others.

    We must have these examples so that no one of good will may despair. An atheist flying a plane solo and about to crash need only make an act of Faith to save his soul. A commie solider in Siberia who is instantly shot for refusing to shoot a priest will not be abandoned by the very Grace that stayed him.
    Actually denial of baptism is not a testimony of God's mercy but a mockery and an act of unbelief.

    As other pointed out, both Sts Dimas and Innocents died before the new law so they did not require baptism. As for your 'many others' this is an empty claim with no evidence.

    Your second paragraph is outright HERESY! Pope Pius 12th taught very clearly that only those who are baptized and professnthe true faith are members of the Church. And it's an infallible dogma that there is no salvation outside the Church. The council of Trent also teaches that baptism is the sacrament of faith, no-one has faith unless they receive it through baptism, so an atheist can never make an act of supernatural faith because he does not have it, his soul has never been infused with the theological virtues.

    Your commie solider is not saved by that act. It's so sad that you can blatantly deny the dogma that baptism is necessary for salvation and that there is no salvation outside of the Church.

    Finally God has complete control over all things, everything that happens God allows to happen. As St Augustine said, we should never say that God would allow any of His elect die before receiving the sacrament of the mediator. St Pail says you cannot believe unless you hear and that you cannot hear unless a preacher is sent. Who sends preachers? It is God, they so God's will for the salvation of souls. You need to trust in Divine Providence. God is in control.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #6 on: November 18, 2025, 04:53:28 AM »
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  • I don't believe we have any such examples, where it can be proven that any particular saint (after Our Lord's Passion) died without receiving the Sacrament of Baptism. St. Dismas and the Holy Innocents died before the institution of the Church and the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism for salvation

    That's why they always rehash the fake examples, since this is the best they've got, invalid ones from the Old Covenant and of course the famous St. Emerentiana, patron saint of BoDers, even though there's no proof she hadn't been baptized.  In times of persecution, the Pope mandated Baptism earlier than normal but those so baptized would continue on as "catechumen" until they finished their training.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #7 on: November 18, 2025, 07:53:16 AM »
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  • That's why they always rehash the fake examples, since this is the best they've got, invalid ones from the Old Covenant and of course the famous St. Emerentiana, patron saint of BoDers, even though there's no proof she hadn't been baptized.  In times of persecution, the Pope mandated Baptism earlier than normal but those so baptized would continue on as "catechumen" until they finished their training.
    Yeah, for any claim of an unbaptized saint there is just as much (or more) evidence that can be provided showing that they were in fact baptised, or that is was never Traditionally claimed that they were unbaptized..such as St. Emerentiana, St. Alban's converted soldier, the 40th martyr, of Sebaste, etc.

    What we do have proof of, however, is people who would 100% be candidates for 'BOD' being raised from the dead specifically to be baptized, or being miraculously kept alive just long enough to be baptised and then immediately dying
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Online JoeZ

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 08:44:44 PM »
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  •  An atheist flying a plane solo and about to crash need only make an act of Faith to save his soul. A commie solider in Siberia who is instantly shot for refusing to shoot a priest will not be abandoned by the very Grace that stayed him.
    I can make up scenarios also. 

    The Polynesian father of a family dies with your "act of faith" but has no way to instruct his children in your "way" and so he can save himself but fails to be Christian and save his children and they are forever lost. Your god is cruel.

    The sincere Tibetan monk has lived a "good" life and is on his death bed. A Christian missionary arrives in town and preaches the Gospel which is strange and upsetting to the monk. He now has repudiate his entire life and all his vain works to be saved in his last few remaining minutes. Had he died the day before he was saved but now the Catholic Church has become an impediment to his salvation. You hate the Cross of Christ when you think like this.
    Pray the Holy Rosary.

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 09:24:53 PM »
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  • Bishop Williamson in seminary read us a letter by one of the SSPX priests in India.  Some guy in the hospital flagged down the priest from across the hall.  The priest instructed him and baptized the guy.  The guy died that same night after getting baptized. 
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #10 on: Today at 12:36:48 AM »
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  • What we do have proof of, however, is people who would 100% be candidates for 'BOD' being raised from the dead specifically to be baptized, or being miraculously kept alive just long enough to be baptised and then immediately dying

    Precisely.  St. Peter Claver raised that one servant girl back to life, even though she lived her life, by all appearances as a devout Catholic.  She had died, but then was raised back to life by St. Peter's prayers, and she reported that she was able to get to a certain point, but then was stopped due to not having the wedding garment on (=the character of Baptism).  Initially St. Peter had suspected that she needed Confession, but then he suddenly received the light that she had not been (validly) baptized.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #11 on: Today at 12:40:02 AM »
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  • St. Augustine, in his later years, after having repudiated his own youthful speculation about a "Baptism of Desire", stated that "if you wish to be Catholic", you cannot assert that there's any kind of "impossibility" that can prevent God bringing the Sacrament to His elect, in his famous "vortex of confusion" passage.

    Indeed, if you hold that it's "impossible" for God to get anyone Baptism, that's certainly heretical, and it's even contrary to our certain natural knowledge about God.

    OR, even worse, where we start implicitly shaking our fists at God in asserting that it would be UNFAIR if He did this, that, or the other thing.  I've known some people who lost their faith over various personal tragedies, so everyone should be incredibly careful about attitudes like that.  Who are we to sit in judgment of God?  If someone was born to a group of animists in the jungles of African and lived his entire life without every hearing about Christ, there's a reason God put him there.  Even Bishop Williamson, no fan of Father Feeney, often said that God puts people in situations like that as an act of Mercy, knowing that had they been given the grace to become Catholic, they would likely have rejected that grace, been damned, and suffered far more for eternity.

    Offline Tarmac Turkey

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #12 on: Today at 03:49:53 AM »
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  • The catechism clearly states that there are 3 forms of baptism. 

    Here's an explanation copied from Fr Ojeka's Corner. 

    A Classic Feneeyite Claim which misreads Scripture, rejects Tradition, and contradicts the Magisterium.

    Sharon Buhuslav commented:

    “Our Lord said: “Unless a man is born of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter heaven.”  Anyone who adds to these words of Christ by saying that someone can be baptized by desire or blood is anathema.  Our Lord said so!”

    ***************

    This is a classic Feneeyite claim. As a matter of fact, the statement grossly misuses Scripture, ignores the Church’s defined teaching with temerity, and commits the very error it accuses others of committing.

    1. Pre-Vatican II Doctrine Explicitly Teaches Three Forms of Baptism

    Long before the modern crisis, the Church—Popes, catechisms, canonists, theologians, and Fathers—unanimously taught:

    (a) Baptism of Water

    The ordinary, sacramental means of regeneration.

    (b) Baptism of Desire

    Explicit or implicit, always involving supernatural faith, perfect contrition, and the will to receive the sacrament when possible.

    (c) Baptism of Blood

    Martyrdom suffered for Christ, conferring the grace of the sacrament.

    This is not a “post-Vatican II” notion. It is Patristic, medieval, and dogmatically recognized.

    2. Pre-Vatican II Magisterial Witnesses

    St. Alphonsus Liguori (Doctor of the Church)

    Teaches de fide that baptism of desire and baptism of blood supply the grace of the sacrament when water is impossible.

    Council of Trent — Session 6, Chapter 4

    Justification cannot take place “without the laver of regeneration or the desire thereof.”
    The Council is defining doctrine, not offering opinion.

    Pius XII, Mystici Corporis (1943)

    Explicitly acknowledges catechumens who die with perfect charity as being united to the Church without the external sacrament.

    3. The Error of Literalism Without Tradition

    The Feeneyite commits the same Modernist linguistic error he claims to oppose:

    He isolates a single verse (“Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost…”)

    He refuses the interpretive authority of the Church

    And he insists that his interpretation is the exclusive dogmatic sense.

    This is exactly what Pope Pius X condemned in Pascendi:

    “Modernism places Scripture in private interpretation apart from the Church’s constant teaching”

    To interpret Scripture contrary to the universal, ordinary magisterium is not Tradition—it is private judgment.

    4. St. Augustine, St. Thomas, and the Fathers Against Feeneyism

    St. Augustine

    Affirms baptism of blood in multiple places:

    “He is not deprived of the sacrament of Baptism who is slain for the name of Christ before he can receive it.”

    St. Thomas Aquinas

    Teaches baptism of desire and blood in Summa III q.66 a.11–12.

    St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Gregory nαzιanzen

    All attest to the reality of non-water baptism.

    The Feeneyite position has no Father, no Doctor, no council, and no Pope behind it.

    5. “Adding to the words of Christ”? — A Fallacy

    Our Lord said:

    “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, you shall not have life in you.”

    Yet infants can be saved without the Eucharist.

    Our Lord said:

    “If your right eye scandalize you, pluck it out.”

    Yet the Church does not require self-mutilation.

    Christ’s words are true, but they must be interpreted with the Church, not against her.

    6. Feeneyism Is a Rejection of the Church’s Authority

    To deny the possibility of baptism of desire or blood is to deny:

    The Council of Trent

    The unanimous witness of the Fathers

    Defined moral and sacramental theology

    The doctrinal teaching of Doctors of the Church

    It is not “defending Christ’s words.”
    It is denying the Church’s understanding of Christ’s words.

    That is why every pre-Vatican II manual lists Feeneyism as an error.

    7. Conclusion

    A Catholic may not reject the constant, universal teaching of the Church under the pretext of “defending Scripture.” The Feeneyite is not defending Our Lord—he is correcting Our Lord’s Church.

    Pre-Vatican II Catholic doctrine infallibly holds:

    Water baptism is necessary in re (in reality)

    Desire or blood baptism can supply the sacramental grace in voto (by desire) or in re as martyrdom

    Salvation is impossible outside the Catholic Church

    But membership and union can be established through extraordinary means when the sacrament is physically impossible.

    Yes: Salvation is strictly through the Church, but God applies extraordinary means of grace when the sacrament is physically impossible, thus preserving both the necessity of the Church and divine mercy.

    Thus the Feeneyite misreads Scripture, rejects Tradition, and contradicts the Magisterium.

    Let him listen, who has ears…



    Offline Tarmac Turkey

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #13 on: Today at 04:22:13 AM »
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  • Baltimore Catechism No. 2 Originally issued by the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore in 1885

    Imprimatur 
    New York, April 6, 1885. John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York.

    157. Q. How many kinds of Baptism are there?
    A. There are three kinds of Baptism: Baptism of water, of desire, and of Blood.


    158. Q. What is Baptism of water?

    A. Baptism of water is that which is given by pouring water on the head of the person to be baptized, and saying at the same time: I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 

    159. Q. What is Baptism of desire?
    A. Baptism of desire is an ardent wish to receive Baptism, and to do all that God has ordained for our salvation.

    160. Q. What is Baptism of blood?
    A. Baptism of blood is the shedding of one's blood for the faith of Christ.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #14 on: Today at 05:25:49 AM »
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  • Long before the modern crisis, the Church—Popes, catechisms, canonists, theologians, and Fathers—unanimously taught:

    (a) Baptism of Water

    The ordinary, sacramental means of regeneration.

    (b) Baptism of Desire

    Explicit or implicit, always involving supernatural faith, perfect contrition, and the will to receive the sacrament when possible.

    (c) Baptism of Blood

    Martyrdom suffered for Christ, conferring the grace of the sacrament.

    This is not a “post-Vatican II” notion. It is Patristic, medieval, and dogmatically recognized.

    2. Pre-Vatican II Magisterial Witnesses




    The Feeneyite position has no Father, no Doctor, no council, and no Pope behind it.



    6. Feeneyism Is a Rejection of the Church’s Authority

    To deny the possibility of baptism of desire or blood is to deny:

    The Council of Trent

    The unanimous witness of the Fathers


    That is why every pre-Vatican II manual lists Feeneyism as an error.

    7. Conclusion

    A Catholic may not reject the constant, universal teaching of the Church under the pretext of “defending Scripture.” The Feeneyite is not defending Our Lord—he is correcting Our Lord’s Church.

    Pre-Vatican II Catholic doctrine infallibly holds:

    Water baptism is necessary in re (in reality)

    Desire or blood baptism can supply the sacramental grace in voto (by desire) or in re as martyrdom
    This slop isn't worth replying to point-by-point, so I will leave you with some actual quotes regarding the sacrament of baptism. That's what BODers always conveniently forget to do..provide actual quotes showing this so-called "unanimous teaching" of BOD ..or even a single quote from a Council teaching BOD, or a single instance of a Pope teaching BOD to the universal Church. Incredible!

    Doesn't look like "unanimous teaching" of BOD to me:

    Quote
    In the first millennium of the Church there lived hundreds of holy men and saints who are called “Fathers of the Church.” Tixeront, in his Handbook of Patrology, lists over five hundred whose names and writings have come down to us.[cxvi] The Fathers (or prominent early Christian Catholic writers) are unanimous from the beginning that no one enters heaven or is freed from original sin without water baptism.
    In the letter of Barnabas, dated as early as 70 A.D., we read:
    “… we descend into the water full of sins and foulness, and we come up bearing fruit in our heart…”[cxvii]
    In 140 A.D., the early Church Father Hermas quotes Jesus in John 3:5, and writes:
    “They had need to come up through the water, so that they might be made alive; for they could not otherwise enter into the kingdom of God.”[cxviii]
        This statement is obviously a paraphrase of John 3:5, and thus it demonstrates that from the very beginning of the apostolic age it was held and taught by the fathers that no one enters heaven without being born again of water and the Spirit based specifically on Our Lord Jesus Christ’s declaration in John 3:5.
    In 155 A.D., St. Justin the Martyr writes:
    “… they are led by us to a place where there is water; and there they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn… in the name of God… they receive the washing of water. For Christ said, ‘Unless you be reborn, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ The reason for doing this we have learned from the apostles.”[cxix]
        Notice that St. Justin Martyr, like Hermas, also quotes the words of Jesus in John 3:5, and based on Christ’s words he teaches that it is from apostolic tradition that no one at all can enter Heaven without being born again of water and the Spirit in the Sacrament of Baptism.
    In his dialogue with Trypho the Jew, also dated 155 A.D., St. Justin Martyr further writes:
    “… hasten to learn in what way forgiveness of sins and a hope of the inheritance… may be yours. There is no other way than this: acknowledge Christ, be washed in the washing announced by Isaias [Baptism]…”[cxx]
    In 180 A.D., St. Irenaeus writes:
    “… giving the disciples the power of regenerating in God, He said to them: ‘Go teach all nations, and baptize… Just as dry wheat without moisture cannot become one dough or one loaf, so also, we who are many cannot be made one in Christ Jesus, without the water from heaven…Our bodies achieve unity through the washing… our souls, however, through the Spirit. Both, then, are necessary.”[cxxi]
        Here we see again a clear enunciation of the constant and apostolic Tradition that no one is saved without the Sacrament of Baptism, from no less than the great apostolic father St. Irenaeus in the 2nd century. St. Irenaeus knew St. Polycarp and St. Polycarp knew the Apostle John himself.
    In 181 A.D., St. Theophilus continues the Tradition:
    “… those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration…”[cxxii]
    In 203 A.D., Tertullian writes:
    “… it is in fact prescribed that no one can attain to salvation without Baptism, especially in view of that declaration of the Lord, who says: ‘Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life [John 3:5]…”[cxxiii]
        Notice how Tertullian affirms the same apostolic Tradition that no one is saved without water baptism based on the words of Jesus Himself.
    Tertullian further writes in 203 A.D.:
    “A treatise on our sacrament of water, by which the sins of our earlier blindness are washed away … nor can we otherwise be saved, except by permanently abiding in the water.”[cxxiv]
        Baptism has also been called since apostolic times the Seal, the Sign and the Illumination; for without this Seal, Sign or Illumination no one is forgiven of original sin or sealed as a member of Jesus Christ.
    “… he that confirmeth us with you in Christ, and that hath anointed us, is God: Who also hath sealed us, and given the pledge of the Spirit in our hearts.” (2 Cor. 1:21-22)
        As early as 140 A.D., Hermas had already taught this truth – that Baptism is the Seal – which was delivered by the Apostles from Jesus Christ.
    Hermas, 140 A.D.: “… before a man bears the name of the Son of God, he is dead. But when he receives the seal, he puts mortality aside and again receives life. The seal, therefore, is the water. They go down into the water dead, and come out of it alive.”[cxxv]
    In the famous work entitled The Second Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, 120-170 A.D., we read:
    “For of those who have not kept the seal of baptism he says: ‘Their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched.’”[cxxvi]
    St. Ephraim, c. 350 A.D.: “… we are anointed in Baptism, whereby we bear His seal.”[cxxvii]
    St. Gregory Nyssa, c. 380 A.D.: “Make haste, O sheep, towards the sign of the cross and the Seal [Baptism] which will save you from your misery!”[cxxviii]
    St. Clement of Alexandria, 202 A.D.:
    “When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons… This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection, washing. It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins…”[cxxix]
    Origen, 244 A.D.:
    “The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants… there is in everyone the innate stains of sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit.”[cxxx]
    St. Aphraates, the oldest of the Syrian fathers, writes in 336 A.D.:
    “This, then, is faith: that a man believe in God … His Spirit …His Christ… Also, that a man believe in the resurrection of the dead; and moreover, that he believe in the Sacrament of Baptism. This is the belief of the Church of God.”[cxxxi]
    The same Syrian father further writes:
    “For from baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ… For the Spirit is absent from all those who are born of the flesh, until they come to the water of re-birth.”[cxxxii]
        Here we see in the writings of St. Aphraates the same teaching of Tradition on the absolute necessity of water baptism for salvation based on the words of Christ in John 3:5.
    St. Cyril of Jerusalem, 350 A.D.:
    “He says, ‘Unless a man be born again’ – and He adds the words ‘of water and the Spirit’ – he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God…..if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but does not receive the seal by means of the water, shall he enter into the kingdom of heaven. A bold saying, but not mine; for it is Jesus who has declared it.”[cxxxiii]
        We see that St. Cyril continues the apostolic Tradition that no one enters heaven without being born again of water and the Spirit, based again on an absolute understanding Our Lord’s own words in John 3:5.
    St. Basil the Great, c. 355 A.D.:
    “Whence is it that we are Christians? Through faith, all will answer. How are we saved? By being born again in the grace of baptism… For it is the same loss for anyone to depart this life unbaptized, as to receive that baptism from which one thing of what has been handed down has been omitted.”[cxxxiv]
    St. Gregory of Elvira, 360 A.D.:
    “Christ is called Net, because through Him and in Him the diverse multitudes of peoples are gathered from the sea of the world, through the water of Baptism and into the Church, where a distinction is made between the good and the wicked.”[cxxxv]
    St. Ephraim, 366 A.D.:
    “This the Most Holy Catholic Church professes. In this same Holy Trinity She baptizes unto eternal life.”[cxxxvi]
    Pope St. Damasus, 382 A.D.:
    “This, then, is the salvation of Christians: that believing in the Trinity, that is, in the Father, and in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, and baptized in it…”[cxxxvii]
    St. Ambrose, 387 A.D.:
    “… no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the Sacrament of Baptism.”[cxxxviii]
    St. Ambrose, 387 A.D.:
    “‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ No one is excepted: not the infant, not the one prevented by some necessity.”[cxxxix]
    St. Ambrose, De mysteriis, 390-391 A.D.:
    “You have read, therefore, that the three witnesses in Baptism are one: water, blood, and the spirit; and if you withdraw any one of these, the Sacrament of Baptism is not valid. For what is water without the cross of Christ? A common element without any sacramental effect. Nor on the other hand is there any mystery of regeneration without water: for ‘unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ [John 3:5] Even a catechumen believes in the cross of the Lord Jesus, by which also he is signed; but, unless he be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, he cannot receive the remission of sins nor be recipient of the gift of spiritual grace.”[cxl]
    St. John Chrysostom, 392 A.D.:
    “Weep for the unbelievers; weep for those who differ not a whit from them, those who go hence without illumination, without the seal! … They are outside the royal city…. with the condemned. ‘Amen, I tell you, if anyone is not born of water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”[cxli]
    St Augustine, 395 A.D.:
    “… God does not forgive sins except to the baptized.”[cxlii]
    Pope St. Innocent, 414 A.D.:
    “But that which Your Fraternity asserts the Pelagians preach, that even without the grace of Baptism infants are able to be endowed with the rewards of eternal life, is quite idiotic.”[cxliii]
    Pope St. Gregory the Great, c. 590 A.D.:
    “Forgiveness of sin is bestowed on us only by the baptism of Christ.”[cxliv]
    Theophylactus, Patriarch of Bulgaria, c. 800 A.D.:
    “He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved. It does not suffi
    ce to believe; he who believes, and is not yet baptized, but is only a catechumen, has not yet fully acquired salvation.”[cxlv] 
    Quote
    [T]he sacrament of baptism is consecrated in water at the invocation of the undivided Trinity — namely Father, Son and holy Spirit — and brings salvation to both children and adults when it is correctly carried out by anyone in the form laid down by the church
    Fourth Lateran Council


    Quote
    All are faithfully to profess that there is one baptism which regenerates all those baptized in Christ, just as there is one God and one faith’. We believe that when baptism is administered in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit, it is a perfect means of salvation for both adults and children. Yet because, as regards the effect of baptism in children, we find that certain theologians have held contrary opinions, some saying that by baptism guilt is indeed remitted in infants but grace is not conferred, others on the contrary asserting that both guilt is remitted and the virtues and sanctifying grace are infused with regard to habit though for the time being not with regard to use, we, considering the general efficacy of Christ’s death, which through baptism is applied in like manner to all the baptised, choose, with the approval of the sacred council, the second opinion, which says that sanctifying grace and the virtues are conferred in baptism on both infants and adults, as more probable and more in harmony with the words of the saints and of modern doctors of theology.
    Council of Vienne


    Quote
    All these sacraments are made up of three elements: namely, things as the matter, words as the form, and the person of the minister who confers the sacrament with the intention of doing what the church does. If any of these is lacking, the sacrament is not effected

    Three of the sacraments, namely baptism, confirmation and orders, imprint indelibly on the soul a character, that is a kind of stamp which distinguishes it from the rest. Hence they are not repeated in the same person. The other four, however, do not imprint a character and can be repeated.


    Holy baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for it is the gate of the spiritual life; through it we become members of Christ and of the body of the church. Since death came into the world through one person, unless we are born again of water and the spirit, we cannot, as Truth says, enter the kingdom of heaven. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water, either hot or cold. The form is: I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. But we do not deny that true baptism is conferred by the following words: May this servant of Christ be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit; or, This person is baptized by my hands in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. Since the holy Trinity is the principle cause from which baptism has its power and the minister is the instrumental cause who exteriorly bestows the sacrament, the sacrament is conferred if the action is performed by the minister with the invocation of the holy Trinity. The minister of this sacrament is a priest, who is empowered to baptize in virtue of his office. But in case of necessity not only a priest or a deacon, but even a lay man or a woman, even a pagan and a heretic, can baptize provided he or she uses the form of the church and intends to do what the church does. The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all original and actual guilt, also of all penalty that is owed for that guilt. Hence no satisfaction for past sins is to be imposed on the baptized, but those who die before they incur any guilt go straight to the kingdom of heaven and the vision of God
    Council of Basel-Ferrara-Florence
    SESSION 8 22 November 1439 [Bull of union with the Armenians]


    Quote
    Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood; and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot. Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin; and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God ? It is he, Jesus Christ who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony–Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. In other words, the Spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others. The reason is that it is by this faith that the catholic church lives and grows, by believing that neither the humanity is without true divinity nor the divinity without true humanity.
    Pope St. Leo the Great
    Dogmatic Letter to Flavian, Bishop of Constantinople
    Council of Chalcedon
    Quote
    On Baptism


    Wow, Pope St Leo the Great dogmatically teaching that that justification, the blood of Our Lord's redemption, and the WATER OF BAPTISM are ONE and INSEPARABLE. No justification without the Sacrament of Baptism.


    Quote
    Trent: On [the sacrament] of baptism:


    CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.

    CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is free, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema

    So, baptism is necessary for salvation, and water is necessary for baptism 


    Trent, On The Sacraments:

    Quote
    CANON IV.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema.
    Council of Trent, Decree on the Sacraments, On The Sacraments In General

    The sacraments, though not all (meaning at least one is), are necessary for salvation.

    The Church teaches that the sacraments are exterior rites consisting of matter, form, and intention. If any one of these is lacking, the Sacrament is not effected. As I posted already posted, Pope Eugene IV taught, in the Bull of Union with the Armenians, that the matter of the sacrament of baptism is true and natural water.

    So,

    1)The sacraments are necessary for salvation, though not all. Meaning at least one is

    2)That one sacrament that is absolutely necessary is the Sacrament of Baptism, for it holds first place among the sacraments and is what allows us to become members of Christ and The Church, outside of which there is no salvation

    3)The matter of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water, without which the sacrament cannot be effected





    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.