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Author Topic: Membership In and Visibility of the Church  (Read 3039 times)

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Membership In and Visibility of the Church
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 07:03:29 PM »
Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Arvinger
This whole article can be refuted with one sentence from Pope Pius XI:

Quote from: Pope Pius XI, [i
Mortalium Animos[/i] (1928)]11. Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.


This is the Papal interpretation of EENS - to be in the Church you must accept, recognize and obey the succesors of Peter. This completely refutes and rules out "salvation through invincible ignorance", salvation via NSAA, being in the Church without being member of the Church and other modernist attempts to dilute the infallible dogma No Salvation Outside the Church.


Okay, we got it now. You condemn the Baltimore Catechism. We know where you stand.


I did not say a word about the Baltimore Catechism, I just quoted Pope Pius XI who refutes your assertion that one can be in the Church without being a member. Do you accept the teaching of Pope Pius XI from Mortalium Animos that to be in the one Church of Christ one has to accept, recognize and obey the successors of Peter?

Membership In and Visibility of the Church
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2016, 11:57:22 PM »
Edit


Membership In and Visibility of the Church
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 12:10:31 AM »
Quote from: Arvinger
Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Arvinger
This whole article can be refuted with one sentence from Pope Pius XI:

Quote from: Pope Pius XI, [i
Mortalium Animos[/i] (1928)]11. Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.


This is the Papal interpretation of EENS - to be in the Church you must accept, recognize and obey the succesors of Peter. This completely refutes and rules out "salvation through invincible ignorance", salvation via NSAA, being in the Church without being member of the Church and other modernist attempts to dilute the infallible dogma No Salvation Outside the Church.


Okay, we got it now. You condemn the Baltimore Catechism. We know where you stand.


I did not say a word about the Baltimore Catechism, I just quoted Pope Pius XI who refutes your assertion that one can be in the Church without being a member. Do you accept the teaching of Pope Pius XI from Mortalium Animos that to be in the one Church of Christ one has to accept, recognize and obey the successors of Peter?


Why did he even mention the Americanist Baltimore Catechism? is it because of the "three" kinds of baptisms introduced in it?

McCork here reveals his 100% Rahnerian understanding of "Baptism of Desire". For him as well as all the other pelagians BODers out there, the notion of "Baptism of Desire" is completely intertwined with the notion of salvific "invincible ignorance" when the two concepts are actually quite different in theology. For these liberals, BOD is nothing more than the loophole which makes heretical salvific invincible ignorance possible, just as Fr. Feeney foresaw. The single loophole which makes non-Catholics possible heirs of Heaven.

Membership In and Visibility of the Church
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2016, 03:38:03 AM »
Quote from: Cantarella
Quote from: Arvinger
Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Arvinger
This whole article can be refuted with one sentence from Pope Pius XI:

Quote from: Pope Pius XI, [i
Mortalium Animos[/i] (1928)]11. Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.


This is the Papal interpretation of EENS - to be in the Church you must accept, recognize and obey the succesors of Peter. This completely refutes and rules out "salvation through invincible ignorance", salvation via NSAA, being in the Church without being member of the Church and other modernist attempts to dilute the infallible dogma No Salvation Outside the Church.


Okay, we got it now. You condemn the Baltimore Catechism. We know where you stand.


I did not say a word about the Baltimore Catechism, I just quoted Pope Pius XI who refutes your assertion that one can be in the Church without being a member. Do you accept the teaching of Pope Pius XI from Mortalium Animos that to be in the one Church of Christ one has to accept, recognize and obey the successors of Peter?


Why did he even mention the Americanist Baltimore Catechism? is it because of the "three" kinds of baptisms introduced in it?

McCork here reveals his 100% Rahnerian understanding of "Baptism of Desire". For him as well as all the other pelagians BODers out there, the notion of "Baptism of Desire" is completely intertwined with the notion of salvific "invincible ignorance" when the two concepts are actually quite different in theology. For these liberals, BOD is nothing more than the loophole which makes heretical salvific invincible ignorance possible, just as Fr. Feeney foresaw. The single loophole which makes non-Catholics possible heirs of Heaven.



Yet, the men who have been outright promoting universal salvation since Vatican II, you call Vicars of Christ!  Don't you see how self-contradictory your position is?

As well, Pope Leo XIII approved of the Baltimore Catechism be used throughout America, but in 1899 condemned Americanism!  Are you saying when he did so, he didn't notice the BC had such errors?

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Membership In and Visibility of the Church
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2016, 01:26:41 PM »
Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Desmond
Quote
there is no salvation outside the Church, and that non-members of that Church can be saved


You can stop reading here, on the very first sentence.


Apparently that's what you do when you read something, quit before reading something in context, where things are clarified.

A sure sign of someone having a SERIOUS problem with their faith is when they criticize something like the Baltimore Catechism which was approved by Rome and peacefully accepted for generations by the Church. Any boy who ever responded adamantly to one of it's teachings, "I don't like that", would have been looked at immediately as a budding heretic. There are several like that here on this forum.


The Baltimore catechism has errors, which is fact no matter who says otherwise, but this article begins with denying the dogma EENS, which SHOULD be looked upon as heretical by members of the Church.

Thankfully one did not have to read the whole thing before discovering the fraud.


Yes, of course, you think you are smarter than all the popes since it was approved, the whole Catholic world of clergy and laity for generations, including some Saints, particularly St. Pius X who included the same in his catechism, canon law incorporating it...none of them noticed...but you know better!

It's typical for a heretic to have such a mindframe.


LOL - look who is calling who a heretic - you who explicitly reject Our Lord's proposition.

Quote from: McCork
Quote from: ihsv

Can a man enter the Kingdom of God without being born again of water and the Holy Ghost?

Don't pretend as if your question is not based directly on Scripture.

It is obvious from my messages that the answer to your question is "yes".



You are evasive when asked direct questions (typical of a heretic), but if I were to ask you now whether the meaning of Scripture is always literal, what would you answer, if you could?


I am never evasive, I have answered every question you've ever asked except for one, which I will never answer because no sense handing more pearls to you on a silver platter for you to trample. No, the meaning of scripture is not always literal, but John 3:5 is, Trent even declares it is to be understood "as it is written". But you reject that directive as well.

OTOH, you have still never answered a number of my questions, the latest question that you refuse to answer is:
One Lord, one faith, one Baptism - Eph 4:5

Q.How many baptisms are there?

A. ________

Why do you refuse to answer? - that is, as you say, typical of a heretic.



Quote from: McCork

Quote from: Stubborn

Error is error no matter where it comes from. The BC, for all the truth it teaches, has a few drops of poison in it - which you naturally slurp right up.



Error harmful, in any way to faith or morals, doesn't come from the Church's magisterium, extraordinary magisterium, or not.


That is wrong. Or to state it more accurately, that is only a half truth. What you are saying is Novus Ordo teaching and thinking that obviously you cannot shake free from and apparently there is no convincing you otherwise, so you will remain in your error until you shake free from that error and accept the truth. Until such a time as God willing, you reject your error and accept the truth, if you want to remain anathema, I will do as the Church teaches and let you be anathema.

Aside from that, the Baltimore catechism is a text book, it is fallible, it has errors same as nearly all the other catechisms. The errors found within it helped fuel the modernist thinking that welcomed in the New faith as it rejected the True faith - which you embrace as truth even after all this time to serve as witness against such thinking. Quite incredible how that works.

Pope Pius IX taught such errors could be expected when bishops convened a council independent of the Pope, as was the case with the BC, which was "prepared and enjoined by Order of the Third Council of Baltimore". But for you, a fallible gathering of bishops produced an infallible text book, which has been revised umpteen times since it first was published in the late 1800s - another clue for you that the BC is fallible.

You give the fallible catechisms authority over explicit papal teachings, dogmatic decrees and even the clear words of God Himself - FYI, that is Novus Ordo.