Author Topic: Membership in and Visibility of the Church (Read 6209 times)

Cantarella · « **Reply #80 on:** January 31, 2014, 03:16:16 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments." Encyclical On Promotion of False Doctrines (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore) by Pope Pius IX, 1863

That is precisely why and how God draw souls to His flock, this is, the Holy Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.

In the Book of Ezechiel, after revealing the promise of baptism (36:25), God tells us how His Spirit can change the heart of man and cause him to obey His commandments: “And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit in the midst of you: and I will cause you to walk in my commandments, and to keep my judgments, and do them” (36:26-27).

Christ says: “No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day” (v. 44). If one is to come to Christ, he must be drawn by the Father’s efficacious grace; he cannot come to Christ by his own natural powers.

Do you really think that for the one who the Father draws will be impossible to receive Baptism (and the rest of the Sacraments) and thus fulfill His promise? Do you think that the worthy souls that Gods draws will be deprived of the means of Salvation?

These Sacraments needed for salvation are only dispensed by the Catholic Church, VISIBLY. Everyone outside It perishes.

SJB · « **Reply #81 on:** February 01, 2014, 08:12:02 PM »

Quote from: Cantrella

Do you really think that for the one who the Father draws will be impossible to receive Baptism (and the rest of the Sacraments) and thus fulfill His promise? Do you think that the worthy souls that Gods draws will be deprived of the means of Salvation?

Read St. Thomas. You've quoted the answer already.

SJB · « **Reply #82 on:** February 01, 2014, 08:21:21 PM »

St. Thomas (De Veritate, q. 14, a.11, ad. 1) is certain that the untutored savage, who follows the dictates of his conscience, receives from God, either by an internal revelation or an external messenger, the faith necessary to his salvation.

Mama ChaCha · « **Reply #83 on:** February 01, 2014, 08:36:08 PM »

Hmm.
I always thought that the Church should mind her flock and not pontificate (pun intended) on the fates of others. It was my, probably wrong, working assumption that to be given graces outside of the Church is an extraordinary grace and is possible, though like deathbed conversions, shouldn't be counted on or taken as a given because the Church couldn't even be a little assured of the spiritual attitudes of anyone outside of the faith. I hope that comes across the way I mean for it to...

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #84 on:** February 05, 2014, 12:31:46 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Your problem is about the membership of the Church. For you, any member of a false religion can be incorporated into the Mystical Body of Christ through invisible ties. This is the same to say that you don't really have to be a Catholic to be saved.

The Dogma is:

No Salvation Outside the Church not

You really have to be a Catholic to be saved

If I ever teach there is salvation outside the Church let me know.

Invisible ties? You mean like sanctifying grace? Guilty as charged.