Author Topic: Membership in and Visibility of the Church (Read 6318 times)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #75 on:** January 31, 2014, 05:20:54 AM »

Can you comprehend what Father Fenton is relating here:

Quote

It is perfectly obvious, then, that St. Robert never took the terms "body" and "soul" of the Church as seriously as does Fr. Journet. In the same volume, the Saint designates the Church itself, the factors which earlier Catholic controversialists had called the outward or bodily bond of union within the Church, and bad Catholics, as a "body." He uses the term "soul" to indicate both the inward bond of union within the Church and good Catholics themselves. He obviously never intended to have the terms employed strictly, according to all exigencies of the hylemorphic theory. In his mind, the Church was certainly not an entity made up of this "body" animated and actuated by what he designated in his famous second chapter as the "soul."

Stubborn · « **Reply #76 on:** January 31, 2014, 06:04:11 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Stubborn
Here is the last error you need to address and admit to before moving onto your next error.

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Non-members attached to the Ark through the inner bonds of unity, primarily sanctifying grace, are taken safely to shore by the Ark to which they are attached and within by desire. All the Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Popes who taught that non-members of the Church can be saved apart from water baptism were fully aware that one needs to be cleansed of Original Sin in order to obtain Eternal Life.

Trent's catechism did not teach such a heresy LoT.

For the Eucharist is the end of all the Sacraments, and the symbol of unity and brotherhood in the Church, outside which none can attain grace.

Nor did Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam teach such heresy that sanctifying grace can be had by those outside of the Church - certainly not by some "inner bonds of unity" - whatever that is: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin...."

Yours, Fenton's and +Cushing's heresy that there is sanctifying grace and salvation without the sacraments outside the Church is best suited for your Novus Ordo forum wherever that may be - - it would fit right in.

Non-members who die within the Church have remission of sin. Non-members can only die within the Church if they have supernatural faith and perfect contrition.

Yes, we know you say there is grace and remission of sins outside the Church - but the whole purpose of me posting the Church teachings above was so you would correct yourself and listen to the de fide teaching which teaches NO remission of sins and NO salvation outside the Church.

Try again and see if you can correct yourself this time.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #77 on:** January 31, 2014, 12:59:03 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: Stubborn
Here is the last error you need to address and admit to before moving onto your next error.

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Non-members attached to the Ark through the inner bonds of unity, primarily sanctifying grace, are taken safely to shore by the Ark to which they are attached and within by desire. All the Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Popes who taught that non-members of the Church can be saved apart from water baptism were fully aware that one needs to be cleansed of Original Sin in order to obtain Eternal Life.

Trent's catechism did not teach such a heresy LoT.

For the Eucharist is the end of all the Sacraments, and the symbol of unity and brotherhood in the Church, outside which none can attain grace.

Nor did Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam teach such heresy that sanctifying grace can be had by those outside of the Church - certainly not by some "inner bonds of unity" - whatever that is: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin...."

Yours, Fenton's and +Cushing's heresy that there is sanctifying grace and salvation without the sacraments outside the Church is best suited for your Novus Ordo forum wherever that may be - - it would fit right in.

Non-members who die within the Church have remission of sin. Non-members can only die within the Church if they have supernatural faith and perfect contrition.

Yes, we know you say there is grace and remission of sins outside the Church - but the whole purpose of me posting the Church teachings above was so you would correct yourself and listen to the de fide teaching which teaches NO remission of sins and NO salvation outside the Church.

Try again and see if you can correct yourself this time.

I do not say there is grace and remission of sin outside the Church. Show me the quote where I say that. You will not because you are lying. This shows the desperate ground the Feeneyites are on and the lengths they have to go to in order to appear tenable.

Cantarella · « **Reply #78 on:** January 31, 2014, 01:12:31 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: Stubborn
Here is the last error you need to address and admit to before moving onto your next error.

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Non-members attached to the Ark through the inner bonds of unity, primarily sanctifying grace, are taken safely to shore by the Ark to which they are attached and within by desire. All the Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Popes who taught that non-members of the Church can be saved apart from water baptism were fully aware that one needs to be cleansed of Original Sin in order to obtain Eternal Life.

Trent's catechism did not teach such a heresy LoT.

For the Eucharist is the end of all the Sacraments, and the symbol of unity and brotherhood in the Church, outside which none can attain grace.

Nor did Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam teach such heresy that sanctifying grace can be had by those outside of the Church - certainly not by some "inner bonds of unity" - whatever that is: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin...."

Yours, Fenton's and +Cushing's heresy that there is sanctifying grace and salvation without the sacraments outside the Church is best suited for your Novus Ordo forum wherever that may be - - it would fit right in.

Non-members who die within the Church have remission of sin. Non-members can only die within the Church if they have supernatural faith and perfect contrition.

Yes, we know you say there is grace and remission of sins outside the Church - but the whole purpose of me posting the Church teachings above was so you would correct yourself and listen to the de fide teaching which teaches NO remission of sins and NO salvation outside the Church.

Try again and see if you can correct yourself this time.

I do not say there is grace and remission of sin outside the Church. Show me the quote where I say that. You will not because you are lying. This shows the desperate ground the Feeneyites are on and the lengths they have to go to in order to appear tenable.

Your problem is about the membership of the Church. For you, any member of a false religion can be incorporated into the Mystical Body of Christ through invisible ties. This is the same to say that you don't really have to be a Catholic to be saved.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #79 on:** January 31, 2014, 02:28:41 PM »

There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments." Encyclical On Promotion of False Doctrines (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore) by Pope Pius IX, 1863