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Author Topic: Ludwig Ott implicitly refutes Baptism of Desire  (Read 13088 times)

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Re: Ludwig Ott implicitly refutes Baptism of Desire
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2018, 08:18:31 PM »
Can you name a theologian in the 19th and 20th century that rejects the theory of salvation by belief in a God that rewards, that is, salvation without desire to be baptized, without a desire to be a Catholic, without belief in Christ or the Holy Trinity?

As  a matter of fact, 99% of those that defend baptism of desire, reject the very idea of desire being necessary for salvation, nor belief in Christ and the Holy Trinity.
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While I concur with the gist of your post, I take issue with the "99%" figure. 
It appears arbitrary, and not "a matter of fact."
I suspect it's exaggerated, and that approximately 87.8125%, +/-0.003%, is closer to the reality.  ;D
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Re: Ludwig Ott implicitly refutes Baptism of Desire
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2018, 11:43:40 PM »
Nobody cares about BOD except those who can't deal with the thrice infallible dogma that only validly baptized Roman Catholics go to heaven. BOD was not an issue for anyone before the Americanists made it so, in the XIX century.  

Chances are the hypothetical catechumen does not even exist in reality anyway.

And of course, these people are not talking about a real, pious catechumen who dies on his way of getting water baptized....


Re: Ludwig Ott implicitly refutes Baptism of Desire
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2018, 11:47:06 PM »

Father Leonard Feeney.

Name a theologian today who rejects the errors of Vatican II.

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To be fair, Fr. Feeney did not wage a crusade rejecting BoD or BoB. Those were not his concern.
His concern was defending extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Period.

As for BoD and BoB, his position was that since we cannot know the state of a soul of a dying person because we cannot know his interior disposition (only God can discern the thought of our hearts), what becomes of such souls who have not been baptized is left to the providence of God. It's not OUR DECISION what happens. It's God's decision.
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BoB and BoD advocates like "RomanTheo" above are wont to rip that prerogative of God away from Him and make it their own.
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BoB and/or BoD never have been prominent issues for the St. Benedict Center, and they never will be.
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Those who would make it seem so are succuмbing to a deception of the enemy who wants to deceive you.
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As for your question, "Name a theologian today who rejects the errors of Vatican II" -- excellent!
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They had to GET RID of Fr. Feeney in order to HOLD Vat.II. If he had not been squelched long in advance (11 years, actually) they would have been utterly UNABLE to hold that evil council, for his one voice would have been like Athanasius against the Arians. And the Modernists were terrified of that prospect.
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This is a very good post, Neil.

Re: Ludwig Ott implicitly refutes Baptism of Desire
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2018, 12:27:42 AM »
This is a very good post, Neil.
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Thank you.
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I'm currently reading The Loyolas and the Cabots by Sister Catherine. You can't make this stuff up!

Re: Ludwig Ott implicitly refutes Baptism of Desire
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2018, 12:43:00 AM »
Nobody cares about BOD except those who can't deal with the thrice infallible dogma that only validly baptized Roman Catholics go to heaven. BOD was not an issue for anyone before the Americanists made it so, in the XIX century.  
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[And flat-earthism wasn't an issue for anyone before Eric Dubay, the atheist, started making YouTube videos.]

Chances are the hypothetical catechumen does not even exist in reality anyway.

And of course, these people are not talking about a real, pious catechumen who dies on his way of getting water baptized....
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Brother Francis used to say that progressivists like to make the exception into the rule. They say, about the image of a tree there before everyone, "I see a tree." Then pushing their finger in to the side of their eyeball, they say, "Now I see two trees."
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You see, their reality is in the mind. 
But truth is defined as the conformity of the mind to reality.
So progressivists are opposed to believing the truth. A lot like flat-earthers, actually!
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Regarding BoD, the progressivist likes to jump topic and worry about the "noble indigenous native on a desert island" far away, and whether it's fair that he wouldn't be given Baptism or instruction in the Faith, why, he's most likely to live and die like his ancestors without ever having heard the name of Jesus pronounced. Then Brother Francis would say,  Why would he be selectively concerned about the noble native in a distant land when we can't get the truth into the minds of our next-door neighbor walking on the Boston Common?
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