Author Topic: Limbo & Baptism? (Read 25182 times)

CMMM · « **Reply #50 on:** September 05, 2009, 10:58:33 PM »

Not sure what needs further explanation.

I am going out on a limb, and assuming you think I am saying that this body would replace the pope.

What I am meaning is that the church doesn't not cease to exist simply because the visible structure of the Church is maintained by the college of cardinals and the Carmelengo.

(This was based on my assumption that you are asserting if what I am saying is true about perpetual succession, the church ceases to exist during the interregnum.)

That is why I believe there is no similarity between an interregnum and your current crisis.

CM · « **Reply #51 on:** September 05, 2009, 11:16:36 PM »

Let me just ask you this: Is it at least possible, in your opinion, that at some point in time the hierarchy could become almost entirely corrupted, that there could be no person who is united to the Divinely instituted papal authority, and that the only Catholics are laypeople and a few scattered clergy?

Why or why not?

CMMM · « **Reply #52 on:** September 05, 2009, 11:44:31 PM »

I'm gonna just go at this logically, so if I say something heretical, let me know, I've never thought about it before.

I would say it 'could' be theologically possible, as Bellarmine would say, but only because it has not been directly condemned.

I'm going to compare such a proposition to that which the earliest catholics, the apostles, would have faced. It is quite likely that in their early ministry, they were quite scattered, with only a handful of lay people, and similarly a lack of clergy.

Irenaeus states the apostles appointed Linus to Bishop of Rome, and we can imagine the difficulty for them to gather, decided, etc.

I would say if there were but a few scattered clergy remaining, they would be obliged to seek, meet and elect another pontiff, as that would be there duty as the remaining visible church.

CM · « **Reply #53 on:** September 05, 2009, 11:54:24 PM »

Now, you see, sedevacantists have simply taken this one step further. They believe it is happening now, and there are just reasons for such a belief, dogmatic reasons.

As for the duty of the visible clergy, which you call 'church' (all the faithful are the Church) many people, believing themselves to be the last remaining Catholics have done this, which is why there is a 'pope' in practically every state, or so it would seem.

I believe that true Catholics need to pray for the man of sin to be revealed. I suspect that it will be Ratzinger, or a successor in the antipapacy of the Vatican II 'church'.

Quote from: C.M.M.M.

if I say something heretical, let me know

I always do. :wink: But you just don't listen.

CMMM · « **Reply #54 on:** September 07, 2009, 08:48:26 AM »

I'm pretty sure you know what I meant by church.

Does the government exist if there is no senate or president?

Anyways, I feel we got away from the original question of 'understanding as it had once been declared'. I don't fault anyone for it, I am as guilty of it at times as anyone else.

CM, do you believe that we can look at the writings of the Saints, Doctors, and certain Theologians to understand what the original sense of the dogma would have been?

(Keeping in mind that these are not infallible declarations, but by looking at what is taught post and prior by certain individuals we can understand what the original meaning was to be, despite our inadequacies with understanding the language used.)

Author Topic: Limbo &amp; Baptism? (Read 25182 times)

Author Topic: Limbo & Baptism? (Read 25182 times)