Author Topic: Limbo & Baptism? (Read 25133 times)

CMMM · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2009, 07:13:52 PM »

Well Robin, no one is interpreting, your the smarty who claims to know what the original meaning of the declared dogma is!!!

You presume away to understand it as originally declared, I'll stick with the tradition of the Church.

And all your 'objective sense' nonsense is full of whooey, no dogma say's "Understand this in it's objective sense", it says understand it as it was once declared.

CM · « **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2009, 07:26:47 PM »

The Tradition of the Church is to deny ecclesiatical burial to catechumens who OBVIOUSLY desired baptism.

C.M.M.M., what is the declaration of the dogma? It is the ex cathedra decree of the pope. So you MUST hold to the meaning of THAT, as it is irreformable.

Objective sense, means that you take it at face value. If it is not a truth fallen from heaven, then it is something that can be subjective. If it is a truth from heaven, then it is an OBJECTIVE truth, just as God is an objective concept, not a subjective concept.

Those are your only two choices. On the one hand, you have ABSOLUTE truth, which is objective. On the other you have subjective truth, which is not truth at all, since it is subject to change.

Modernism is the belief that such truths can be explained in a way contrary to how they were declared. The declaration is the ex cathedra decree, not a theologians take on it, nor that of a catechism writer.

You are openly positing the heretical Modernist argument that you do not have to hold the dogma according to the meaning that has been declared in the definition of the Pontiff, which is irreformable.

The matter of heresy is the belief itself. The form is the assent of the will to said belief, once it has been shown to be in opposition to something that is to be believed by Divine and Catholic faith. You are demonstrating that you fit into both of these criteria.

How many different ways do I have to say the same thing?
And my name is David, not Robin.

CMMM · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2009, 08:18:51 PM »

Quote

For the doctrine of faith which God has revealed has not been proposed, like a philosophical invention to be perfected by human ingenuity, but has been delivered as a divine deposit to the Spouse of Christ to be faithfully kept and infallibly declared. Hence that meaning of the sacred dogmas is perpetually to be retained which our Holy Mother, the Church, has once declared, nor is that meaning ever to be departed from under the pretense or pretext of a deeper comprehension of them

Again, no objective sense. Let us stick solely to the decree. The burden is on you to prove a couple things.

A) The meaning that you prescribe to the dogma is the original intended meaning of the dogma, as faithfully kept by the Church.
B) You are not departing the original meaning for an altogether new meaning.

CM · « **Reply #28 on:** September 03, 2009, 12:40:52 AM »

Why don't you go ahead and explain to me then, based on a comprehensive breakdown of the declaration, what the 'original meaning' was that God, who spoke these words through the lips of the Pontiff, intended to convey to the faithful.

CMMM · « **Reply #29 on:** September 03, 2009, 06:34:08 AM »

That's what perpetual succession is for.

Author Topic: Limbo &amp; Baptism? (Read 25133 times)

Author Topic: Limbo & Baptism? (Read 25133 times)