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Author Topic: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor  (Read 20035 times)

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Offline DZ PLEASE

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Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
« Reply #225 on: September 12, 2017, 10:26:33 AM »
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  • Dear Yuck.  Quite pretending you know anything.
    Okay dude, the "yuck" thing? Yeah Liberace spoke from the hereafter and told the Village ppl to tell Elton John to tell you "That's really gαy."
    Let 'em drop man.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #226 on: September 12, 2017, 10:27:03 AM »
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  • The guy with the most ironic username ever, will not even be so honest as to answer this question.
    I have answered the question.  Name-calling.  A great sign of intellectual prowess.  Regurgitating the objection someone else came up with like you are doing something fancy.  You wish you could trip up Alphonsus and Augustine and thereby discount what all the Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Popes who spoke to the issue taught:

    Quote
    St. Augustine, Church Father and Doctor of the Church (4th-5th Century): The Seven Books of Augustin, Bishop of Hippo, On Baptism, Against the Donatists, Book IV, Ch 22: "That the place of baptism is sometimes supplied by martyrdom is supported by an argument by no means trivial, which the blessed Cyprian adduces from the thief, to whom, though he was not baptized, it was yet said, "To-day shall thou be with me in Paradise." On considering which, again and again, I find that not only martyrdom for the sake of Christ may supply what was wanting of baptism, but also faith and conversion of heart, if recourse may not be had to the celebration of the mystery of baptism for want of time. For neither was that thief crucified for the name of Christ, but as the reward of his own deeds; nor did he suffer because he believed, but he believed while suffering. It was shown, therefore, in the case of that thief, how great is the power even without the visible sacrament of baptism, of what the apostle says, "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." But the want is supplied invisibly only when the administration of baptism is prevented, not by contempt for religion, but by the necessity of the moment."
    Ch23: "But as in the thief, to whom the material administration of the sacrament was necessarily wanting, the salvation was complete, because it was spiritually present through his piety, so, when the sacrament itself is present, salvation is complete, if what the thief possessed be unavoidably wanting."
    Ch24: "And as in the thief the gracious goodness of the Almighty supplied what had been wanting in the sacrament of baptism, because it had been missing not from pride or contempt, but from want of opportunity..."
    The feeneyites think they can just blow off Augustine and Alphonsus and ignore Emerentiana or make up a ferry tale to get out of it.  Yuck.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #227 on: September 12, 2017, 10:28:43 AM »
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  • Name-calling.  A great sign of intellectual prowess.
    Oh YUCK!

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #228 on: September 12, 2017, 10:32:56 AM »
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  • Impossible to get in a sane conversation with public feeneyites = Yuck:

     St. Pope Pius X (early 20th century): Catechism of Christian Doctrine (Catechism of St. Pius X):

    The Creed, Ninth Article, The Church in Particular: 29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved? A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation

    Baptism, Necessity of Baptism and Obligations of the Baptized: 17 Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way? A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #229 on: September 12, 2017, 10:40:23 AM »
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  • Catholic Encyclopedia (~1913): Baptism: Substitutes for the Sacrament: “The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.”

    Baptism: The Baptism of Desire: “This doctrine is set forth clearly by the Council of Trent. In the fourteenth session (cap. iv) the council teaches that contrition is sometimes perfected by charity, and reconciles man to God, before the Sacrament of Penance is received. In the fourth chapter of the sixth session, in speaking of the necessity of baptism, it says that men can not obtain original justice "except by the washing of regeneration or its desire" (voto).

    The Church: "Thus, even in the case in which God Saves men apart from the Church, He does so through the Church's graces. They are joined to the Church in spiritual communion, though not in visible and external communion. In the expression of theologians, they belong to the soul of the Church, though not to its body."
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Motorede

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #230 on: September 12, 2017, 10:44:02 AM »
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  • Is Lover of Hate a girl? I think she is. She writes like a girl. And she spells like a cretin. Sorry Cretins--didn't intend to insult you. 

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #231 on: September 12, 2017, 10:45:11 AM »
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  • LoT, it's only impossible because you won't stay on topic and answer some simple questions.  

    I said that we could circle back to Saint Emerentiana, but I'd like to have my questions answered.  You accused me of pitting myself against St. Cyprian and I've proven that his example of using the Good Thief as an argument in favor of a BOD is flawed.  

    You have yet to respond to my questions, or show what principles of a BOD can be applied to the Good Thief.
    Please go back and see my responses.  Augustine and Alphonsus use the examples.  Do the 21st century lay-bloggers teach them?  Not me.  Maybe you?  And then I bring up Saint Emerentiana which was after good thief no?  Then I wait for response.  Get None.  But get accuses of not responding.  Over and over again.  And you wonder why I  :barf:
    Please now answer my question once after I have answered yours three or four times.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #232 on: September 12, 2017, 10:45:52 AM »
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  • Is Lover of Hate a girl? I think she is. She writes like a girl. And she spells like a cretin. Sorry Cretins--didn't intend to insult you.
    Ah.  Scholarly.  That should settle the debate.  Next topic.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #233 on: September 12, 2017, 10:50:59 AM »
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  • Please go back and see my responses.  Augustine and Alphonsus use the examples.  Do the 21st century lay-bloggers teach them?  Not me.  Maybe you?  And then I bring up Saint Emerentiana which was after good thief no?  Then I wait for response.  Get None.  But get accuses of not responding.  Over and over again.  And you wonder why I  :barf:
    Please now answer my question once after I have answered yours three or four times.  


    Offline Motorede

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #234 on: September 12, 2017, 10:52:28 AM »
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  • Ah.  Scholarly.  That should settle the debate.  Next topic.
    One can't debate with a Hater and a dodger. 

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #235 on: September 12, 2017, 10:52:49 AM »
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  • Canon Law (1917): Canon 737: “Baptism, the door and foundation of the Sacraments, in fact or at least in desire necessary unto salvation for all, is not validly conferred except through the ablution of true and natural water with the prescribed form of words.”

    Canon 1239: “Those who have died without baptism are not to be given ecclesiastical burial. Catechumens who die without baptism through no fault of their own are to be counted among the baptized.”

     
    ·     A Commentary on the New Code of Canon Law (Augustine, 1918): Canon 737: "The Church has ever taught that Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, - either really or by desire - and that consequently no other sacrament can be validly received without it."
    Canon 1239: "Baptism may be received by desire - baptismus flaminis - and this is generally supposed in those who had received instructions in the faith (catechumens)." [Note: "baptismus flaminis" is Latin for "baptism of desire"]

    Canon 2258: "The relation of the individual Catholic to the body of the Church is sometimes styled external communion, whilst his connection with the soul of the Church is called internal communion. This latter communion is not per se severed by excommunication, as grace and charity can not be taken away by the penal sword of the Church, but are lost only through grievous personal guilt. And as this guilt can be repaired by perfect contrition, it may happen that one is excommunicated and yet lives in the friendship of God. Besides, faith and hope may coexist with mortal sin."
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Motorede

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #236 on: September 12, 2017, 10:56:39 AM »
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  • Scholarly like your YUCK was scholarly, Hater? 

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #237 on: September 12, 2017, 10:58:52 AM »
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  • Your responses were citations from Augustine and Alphonsus, but I don't see where you applied the principles of a BOD to the Good Thief, nor do I see the relevance in the citations.  Are you claiming that the Good Thief desired "the true baptism of water"?

    To keep things neat and orderly (I was a Marine, man, I like to keep things in an orderly fashion), let's first discuss the issue of the Good Thief, since that was the original intention of your post addressed to me, accusing me of pitting myself against St. Cyprian.  Once we get through this topic, we can move on to the next.  

    Can you please show us how the principles of a BOD can be applied to the Good Thief...
    They use the Good Thief as an example.  So according to Feeneyites not only was Augustine wrong for using the example but Alphonse after all that time still didn't see that it was wrong to give the example.  My answer is that I trust Sainted Fathers and Doctors who are in agreement on the same issue and then I bring up Emerentiana for the 20th time with still no response.  She was after the Gospel was promulgated no?  
    The above is perfectly acceptable and frankly, blatently obvious to Catholics.  Where is the problem?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #238 on: September 12, 2017, 11:00:22 AM »
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  • They use the Good Thief as an example.  So according to Feeneyites not only was Augustine wrong for using the example but Alphonse after all that time still didn't see that it was wrong to give the example.  My answer is that I trust Sainted Fathers and Doctors who are in agreement on the same issue and then I bring up Emerentiana for the 20th time with still no response.  She was after the Gospel was promulgated no?  
    The above is perfectly acceptable and frankly, blatently obvious to Catholics.  Where is the problem?
    Well now that we've been excommunicated, who's for flan?

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #239 on: September 12, 2017, 11:01:21 AM »
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  • These types of posts, while amusing sometimes, do nothing to further the conversation.  I'm not saying that they don't have their place every once in a while, but multiple posts like this only clog up the thread.  

    Let's try and keep LoT on topic and engaged in the discussion.  
    Thank you.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church