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Author Topic: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor  (Read 11807 times)

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Offline DZ PLEASE

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Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
« Reply #240 on: September 12, 2017, 11:02:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bellator Dei on September 12, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
    These types of posts, while amusing sometimes, do nothing to further the conversation.  I'm not saying that they don't have their place every once in a while, but multiple posts like this only clog up the thread.  

    Let's try and keep LoT on topic and engaged in the discussion.  
    He isn't willing. It's a sad joke, .^. the jokes.

    Speaking of staying on point, what's the topic of the thread again?
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #241 on: September 12, 2017, 11:03:41 AM »
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #242 on: September 12, 2017, 11:04:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on September 12, 2017, 11:02:49 AM
    He isn't willing. It's a sad joke, .^. the jokes.

    Speaking of staying on point, what's the topic of the thread again?
    A Catholic Dictionary (~1931-1958): Baptism, The Sacrament of: "Baptism by water, blood, or desire is necessary to salvation".

    The Soul of the Church: "The Holy Ghost is the soul of the mystical body of Christ, the Church, as Pope Pius XII declares in Mystici Corporis Christi. But the expression "soul of the Church" has often been used in a metaphorical sense to designate all those who actually are in a state of grace in dependence on the merits of Christ and of the sanctifying action of the Holy Ghost; many of these persons who are not seen to be members of the visible body of the Church. But to say that such persons belonging to the "soul of the Church" is not altogether free from objection. It is better to say of the non-Catholic in good faith that "he belongs invisibly to the Church," as being "related to the mystical Body of the Redeemer by some unconscious reaching out and desire" (Pope Pius XII). 
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #243 on: September 12, 2017, 11:16:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on September 12, 2017, 11:08:09 AM
    His response shows that the Saints he quoted and the Roman Catechism contradict eachother and he prefers to ignore one and appeal to the other depending on what he's arguing at the time.

    The Douay Catechism cites as PROOF of BOB the Holy Innocents but the Roman Catechism says that Baptism wasn't obligatory yet when the Holy Innocents were martyred. This would make the Holy Innocents NOT proof of Baptism of Blood.

    Douay Catechism: " Q. Can a man be saved without baptism?
        A. He cannot, unless he have it either actual or in desire, with contrition, or to be baptized in his blood as the holy Innocents were, which suffered for Christ."

    Catechism of the Council of Trent: “Holy writers are unanimous in saying that after the Resurrection of our Lord, when He gave His Apostles the command to go and teach all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, the law of Baptism became obligatory on all who were to be saved.”
    Again.  The "contradiction" is only apparent to 21st century feeneyite lay-bloggers.  Not to the Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes.  I wonder why this is so difficult to grasp.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #244 on: September 12, 2017, 11:17:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on September 12, 2017, 11:14:38 AM
    Good point
    Thanks. I'm not disagreeing with BD, but that's just it, if things are orderly, then they are easier to find, and that include topics which someone else may find useful or instructive.

    If naught else, it saves them time looking through the trash for garbage; it permits them to drive on.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #245 on: September 12, 2017, 11:23:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bellator Dei on September 12, 2017, 11:12:02 AM
    I understand that they use the Good Thief as an example...  C'mon man!!  

    When I asked how the Good Thief could be used as an argument in favor of a BOD, YOU said that "it is the same principal".
    I'm asking you - what principles of a BOD can be applied to the Good Thief?
    Conversion of the heart.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #246 on: September 12, 2017, 11:30:05 AM »
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    •  Letter of the Holy Office to Archbishop Cushing of Boston (Directly approved by Pope Pius XII, August 8, 1949): Canon Law Digest, Vol III, 1953, pg 525, Canon 1324 (Dangers to the Faith) (Excerpts): "In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circuмstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (<Denzinger>, nn. 797, 807). The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

    However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God. These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, <On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ> (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.

    But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: "For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Heb. 11:6)." 

    Note: Three years after this letter was sent from the Holy Office to Archbishop Cushing of Boston in 1949, the Holy See ordered the full letter be published for the benefit of the faithful. This puts the matter to rest. See here for the full letter from the Holy Office.
     
    ·     Pope Pius XII (Oct. 29, 1951): Address to the Congress of the Italian Catholic Association of Midwives: "If what We have said up to now deals with the protection and the care of natural life, it should hold all the more in regard to the supernatural life which the newly born infant receives with Baptism. In the present economy there is no other way of communicating this life to the child who has not yet the use of reason. But, nevertheless, the state of grace at the moment of death is absolutely necessary for salvation. Without it, it is not possible to attain supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God. An act of love can suffice for an adult to obtain sanctifying grace and supply for the absence of Baptism; for the unborn child or for the newly born, this way is not open..."
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #247 on: September 12, 2017, 11:50:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bellator Dei on September 12, 2017, 11:47:19 AM
    I'll discontinue the conversation on this thread and move to the new one...in an orderly fashion.  
    I'm the one that started the thread.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #248 on: September 12, 2017, 11:52:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on September 12, 2017, 11:17:56 AM
    Thanks. I'm not disagreeing with BD, but that's just it, if things are orderly, then they are easier to find, and that include topics which someone else may find useful or instructive.

    If naught else, it saves them time looking through the trash for garbage; it permits them to drive on.
    He means, quotes from the Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes.  Feeneyites don't like that when it contradicts their novel interpenetration of EENS.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #249 on: September 12, 2017, 11:52:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on September 12, 2017, 11:50:02 AM
    I'm the one that started the thread.
      The thread about not what it now is, whatever that is. :fryingpan:
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #250 on: September 12, 2017, 11:54:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on September 12, 2017, 11:52:43 AM
     The thread about not what it now is, whatever that is. :fryingpan:
    You hate truth.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #251 on: September 12, 2017, 11:57:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on September 12, 2017, 11:54:34 AM
    You hate truth.
    If truth were what is being peddled here, then this charge would stick; but as it is, "SAYIN' STUFFFFFFFFFF...."
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #252 on: September 12, 2017, 11:59:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on September 12, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
    If truth were what is being peddled here, then this charge would stick; but as it is, "SAYIN' STUFFFFFFFFFF...."
    You believe no salvation apart from water?
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #253 on: September 12, 2017, 12:02:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on September 12, 2017, 11:59:48 AM
    You believe no salvation apart from water?

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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
    « Reply #254 on: September 12, 2017, 12:04:33 PM »
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    • I'll take that as a yes.  But you are not in good company.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church
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