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Author Topic: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor  (Read 22104 times)

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Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
« Reply #130 on: September 07, 2017, 11:11:50 AM »
The Council of Trent corrected this and other saints.  There is no justification or salvation without the sacrament of Baptism.  
Which post Trent theologian (or above) verifies it.  We already understand Bellarmine's and Alphonsus' (Pius IX, X, XII) understanding of Trent.  I say this respectfully, because that should settle it, but I am just seeing if you have any leg to stand on.   

Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
« Reply #131 on: September 07, 2017, 11:37:11 AM »
Which post Trent theologian (or above) verifies it.  We already understand Bellarmine's and Alphonsus' (Pius IX, X, XII) understanding of Trent.  I say this respectfully, because that should settle it, but I am just seeing if you have any leg to stand on.  
We've been through this.  Trent's canons on Baptism speak for themselves.  Collectively, these Canons do not admit the non-baptized into heaven.  Drawing inferences, or exchanging other statements as modifying these in any way makes these statements false. Which is IMPOSSIBLE. If every other statement in contention with these canons can undo them, there is no Catholic teaching that matters.  However, if these stand true, as written, and the saints (theologians, etc) were indeed corrected, all remains as the Church teaches.  Observations by saints cannot trump, modify, or change the canons of the greatest Council in the Church. 
CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.
CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is free, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.

It is also known that Justification cannot be effected without the laver of regeneration of the desire thereof.  Cannot be effected without what?  Cannot be effected without the laver of regeneration (baptism) or without the desire thereof (desire to be baptized) Bod is an extrapolation, an error, because it forces Catholics to modify the meaning of the canons of Trent and misread the statements therein.

Bod also promotes the notion that faith alone saves.  If Baptism isn't necessary, then faith alone saves, a notion also condemned. 

Bod destroys the teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church and puts into question all the related teachings by opining the notion that no baptism, only desire can save.  Because this suggests that God commands something impossible to accomplish in some cases is absurd.  If God can provide bod, He can stay within the parameters outlined in Trent and get them Baptism.  All is resolved, Catholic teaching maintained when bod is dismissed.    


Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
« Reply #132 on: September 07, 2017, 11:41:59 AM »
Is it your contention that Bellarmine and Alphonsus did not properly understand Trent?

BOD according to the authoritative sources does not teach salvation by faith alone but clearly teaches that one must have perfect charity in order to be saved.  Of that there can be no doubt.  There is no such thing a supernatural charity by desire.  So please remove that as one of your objections.

Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
« Reply #133 on: September 07, 2017, 12:30:26 PM »
Is it your contention that Bellarmine and Alphonsus did not properly understand Trent?

BOD according to the authoritative sources does not teach salvation by faith alone but clearly teaches that one must have perfect charity in order to be saved.  Of that there can be no doubt.  There is no such thing a supernatural charity by desire.  So please remove that as one of your objections.
All I contend it's that Trent is the measure when there is a contradiction. Trying to reconcile the difference by gutting Trent using saints and theologians does not resolve anything, but complicates everything, while also rendering null the teachings of that great Council.

Re: Ladislaus the Calumniating Detractor
« Reply #134 on: September 07, 2017, 12:33:12 PM »
Is it your contention that Bellarmine and Alphonsus did not properly understand Trent?

BOD according to the authoritative sources does not teach salvation by faith alone but clearly teaches that one must have perfect charity in order to be saved.  Of that there can be no doubt.  There is no such thing a supernatural charity by desire.  So please remove that as one of your objections.
Since supernatural Charity is that great virtue provided in Baptism, perfect Charity without Baptism is a false hope.