:applause:

What Trent is telling us , or explaining is , the transition of being regenerated from the first Adam, (the devil), to the second adam, Jesus Christ, made a heir to his kingdom, receiving all the other benefits , Original sin and all other sins taken away, becoming a member of the Church.  
The requirements for this is that you have a desire to receive Baptism, and do receive Sacramental Baptism.  
It explains , "What Cannot take Place", to receive this said Justification.
What cannot take place is if one of the two are missing,  no water ,no desire,  no Justification
Justification is not a physicial trate,  it is a "Term", defined in words, as to what can and cannot happen to be considered "In the State of Justification".

Justification is not Salvation 
Justification can be lost in one Mortal Sin, the mark on the soul remains from baptism 

That's it Folks , Plain and simple
More to come on the erroneous reading from Denzinger s  that every uses but will not accept the error >>

LoT, your incessant spamming of quotes in the past days completely derailed the discussion making it impossible to follow.  I am here to see and occasionally participate in the hope of learning and gaining understanding.  You have prevented this from happening on this thread and on many others.  I am grateful that you have stopped, or at least temporarily halted, this practice on another thread, but the damage is done.

Ah, yes, the +McKenna position that this was nothing more than a hyperbole to emphasize the gravity of schism ... vs. being a doctrinal definition.

Ladislaus I suggest you bone up on the history of the Church during the time of Pope Eugene IV.
 
Look up your favorite Catholic history book or Fr. Clement Raab, O.F.M., Twenty Ecuмenical Councils of the Catholic Church, p, 141 and learn that, “In the midst of this jurisdictional tug-of-war Pope Eugene IV issued a decree on September 18, 1437, dissolving the Council of Basel and transferring it to a city within the PAPAL States.  Italian bishops who remained loyal to the pope flocked to the magnificent Romanesque cathedral of Ferrara where the council began its sessions on January 8, 1438.  Meanwhile, the Eastern schismatic churches sent representatives to Pope Eugene in an attempt to achieve unity.  Finally, the council would receive its raison d'etre. 
Meanwhile, the schismatic clergy who had remained at Basel “suspended” Pope Eugene in 1438 and “deposed” him on July 25^th, 1439”.
Learn too, about Antipope Felix, then tell us there was no SCHISM for Pope Eugene to mention or warn the schismatics in the manner that he chose to see fit (1441). 

It is always best to look and see what was going on at that time in the history of the Church, everything makes good sense when you are of good will, and earnestly seeking the truth and the why this was said, some refer to it as CONTEXT.  
Much better than to fit the words into your own erroneous agenda.  
 

What are you talking about, I never said I deny EENS. 

But your pope does.  That doesn't seem to bother those who defend his papacy, it just seems to sidestep their thinking. That is not honest.    

Just for the record, who here denies No Salvation Outside the Church?  Except in the imagination of those who accuse falsely. 
FYI No Salvation Outside the Church is doctrine.  

I personally do not know LOT.... but I think he wants to show there is much more Church teaching docuмented than not about the subject.

Problem #256 with debating people online - They cannot distinguish between different types of sources.

Myrna, just because some theologian discusses a topic doesn't mean it's church teaching. Same goes for a theologian who ends up a Saint.  Church teaching comes from papal 'de fide' pronouncements (i.e. Trent) that are binding.  Most of LOT's quotes are not church teaching, but theologian's private opinions...and are 100% able to err.

This is infallibility 101.

Call Our Lord a Feeneyite then.

"Unless a man be born again of WATER and the Holy Ghost, he SHALL NOT ENTER the Kingdom of God."

"Go forth and teach all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."


You people - Pious Frauds.  

You act as if Aquinas et al. do not understand the verse.  This is either sheer dishonesty or unparalleled stupidity.