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Author Topic: Justification  (Read 16548 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Justification
« Reply #120 on: August 07, 2017, 11:57:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 07, 2017, 11:55:11 AM
    "Imperfect member"  Palagian.  You are trying to have it both ways liberal.

    You've had another mental breakdown, LoT.  You clearly don't even know what the term "Palagian" [sic] means (nor how to spell it).  This is debated among YOU BoDers and you're promoting this as an article of faith.  In fact, you've referred to it explicitly as such, and I had to correct you.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #121 on: August 07, 2017, 11:59:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on August 07, 2017, 11:15:04 AM
    Address to Midwives on the Nature of Their Profession
    Pope Pius XII - October 29, 1951


    Supernatural life

    Above all, the state of grace is absolutely necessary at the moment of death without it salvation and supernatural happiness - the beatific vision of God are impossible.  An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism; to the still unborn or newly born this way is NOT open.


    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12midwives.htm
    The Pope has spoken!   
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #122 on: August 07, 2017, 12:03:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on August 07, 2017, 11:59:29 AM
    The Pope has spoken!  

    Says the genius sedevacantist who thinks that every utterance of any pope is infallible.  Do you also believe, like Nado, that every imprimatured book is infallible?
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #123 on: August 07, 2017, 12:03:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on August 07, 2017, 11:59:29 AM
    The Pope has spoken!  
    Yes, the Pope has spoken.  Sanctifying grace provided by the Sacrament of Baptism is necessary for salvation.  Bod does not impart sanctifying grace, and will never save a single soul.  Why? Because the unbaptized can never make an act of love.  Charity comes into the soul with the Sacrament of Baptism.  De Fide.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #124 on: August 07, 2017, 12:04:38 PM »
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #125 on: August 07, 2017, 12:07:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 07, 2017, 11:57:37 AM
    You've had another mental breakdown, LoT.  You clearly don't even know what the term "Palagian" [sic] means (nor how to spell it).  This is debated among YOU BoDers and you're promoting this as an article of faith.  In fact, you've referred to it explicitly as such, and I had to correct you.
    Lower myself to your level does not make any sense.  I agree.  I'll try to stop using your underhanded tactics so you can see yourself for what you are in the hopes you will change and become intellectually honest.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #126 on: August 07, 2017, 12:08:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 07, 2017, 11:53:36 AM
    I'm obviously speaking of the official definition of membership which included the baptized?  If I was speaking to one who was good willed and not trying to undermine me you would not have pretended not to notice the obvious.
    After all these years I'm not sure how I still fall into the trap of still over-estimating you.  

    Obviously FULL membership (or membership simpliciter) includes only the baptized.  Unfortunately, you are not acquainted with the notion of the DISTINCTION.  And of course you have no business attempting theology with that kind of ignorance.  Those in the partial membership camp distinguish membership and say that while one cannot have full membership simpliciter, one can still have a partial membership secundum quid.  They're arguing precisely that you can have membership secundum quid.  But, then I might as well be speaking Chinese to you here.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #127 on: August 07, 2017, 12:08:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on August 07, 2017, 11:59:29 AM
    The Pope has spoken!  
    He doesn't care about such trivial things as the Pope speaking.  Ladislaus has more authority.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #128 on: August 07, 2017, 12:09:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 07, 2017, 12:08:02 PM
    Obviously FULL membership (or membership simpliciter) includes only the baptized.  Unfortunately, you are not acquainted with the notion of the DISTINCTION.  And of course you have no business attempting theology with that kind of ignorance.  Those in the partial membership camp distinguish membership and say that while one cannot have full membership simpliciter, one can still have a partial membership secundum quid.  They're arguing precisely that you can have membership secundum quid.  But, then I might as well be speaking Chinese to you here.
    You act like I don't understand the distinctions and choose to disagree with me even when you agree because you are so bent on undermining me.  This is truly sad.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #129 on: August 07, 2017, 12:22:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 07, 2017, 12:09:50 PM
    You act like I don't understand the distinctions and choose to disagree with me even when you agree because you are so bent on undermining me.  This is truly sad.  

    You clearly don't understand the distinction because you've been rambling on that membership is a binary either-or proposition (either you have it or you don't) ... despite my repeated explanations that we're talking about a distinction here.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #130 on: August 07, 2017, 12:23:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 07, 2017, 12:22:24 PM
    You clearly don't understand the distinction because you've been rambling on that membership is a binary either-or proposition (either you have it or you don't) ... despite my repeated explanations that we're talking about a distinction here.
    Incorrect.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #131 on: August 07, 2017, 12:29:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 07, 2017, 12:22:24 PM
    You clearly don't understand the distinction because you've been rambling on that membership is a binary either-or proposition (either you have it or you don't) ... despite my repeated explanations that we're talking about a distinction here.
    Forked tongues do this without regard for distinction, except to relocate it upon necessity
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #132 on: August 07, 2017, 12:32:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on August 07, 2017, 12:29:39 PM
    Forked tongues do this without regard for distinction, except to relocate it upon necessity
    You can't make a distinction between the following:

    There is no salvation outside the Church.

    Non-members can be saved within the Church.

    A member according to Pius XII (if he is acceptable to you) is one who is baptized, professes the faith and submits to legitimate ecclesiastical authority.  I have to write this all out since you do not go by the classic definition of "membership" if doing so does not suit your purposes.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #133 on: August 07, 2017, 12:35:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 07, 2017, 12:32:37 PM
    You can't make a distinction between the following:

    There is no salvation outside the Church.

    Non-members can be saved within the Church.

    A member according to Pius XII (if he is acceptable to you) is one who is baptized, professes the faith and submits to legitimate ecclesiastical authority.  I have to write this all out since you do not go by the classic definition of "membership" if doing so does not suit your purposes.
    Yea, I can distinguish the first is a Catholic dogma and the second one is a farce perpetrated by the heresy of bod (ers).
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Justification
    « Reply #134 on: August 07, 2017, 12:36:52 PM »
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    See what I meant by the merry-go-round, above they are mentioning St. Thomas and Alphonsus Ligouri after I had posted this below! Shear insanity.


    Quote
    Quote
    "BODers ask (they use) the question, what happens to a person who is justified before baptism, and dies without baptism? The answer they all end at in my experience is: Jews, Hindus, Mohamedans, Buddhists.... etc can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards. What that has to do BOB or the justification quote from Trent or a catechumen wanting to be a Catholic or St. Thomas, and St. Alphonsus Ligouri,  I have not a clue
    Notice that at no point do any of these BODers deny that this is what they believe. Notice that at no ppoint do they defend this postion, they always go back to the beginning of the merry-go-round with some quote that has no relevance to what they really are trying to teach.
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