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Author Topic: Justification, the BoD of the Catechumen, and Classical "Feeneyism"  (Read 25508 times)

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Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Justification, the BoD of the Catechumen, and Classical "Feeneyism"
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2026, 03:07:36 PM »
I posted this on the other baptism thread, but meant to post it here:

St. Ambrose raised up a girl from the dead; her dead body was lying in a monastery for six months while the monks prayed for her, knowing that she was unbaptized.  Bishop Ambrose came by the monastery, raised her to life and baptized her.

My question for the BoDer's is, If one dies with BoD, and is raised to life, does he need to be baptized with water? 

Online Ladislaus

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Re: Justification, the BoD of the Catechumen, and Classical "Feeneyism"
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2026, 03:18:58 PM »
Lucid as always, DR. Too bad it's pearls before swine.

So here we have another joker endorsing justification by faith and calling the Sacrament a work.  DR's post was about as lucid at Luther's Theses.

Of course, the post is utterly bereft of any rational content, just a gratuitous declaration that those who reject the Protestant heresy of justification by faith and the Pelagian reference to the Sacrament of Baptism as "works" ... that those who reject these heresies are "swine".

I used to be critical of the Dimond Brothers for calling most BoDers out as being "bad-willed".  So, the more I debate this topic, the more evident it becomes that they were right.  Now, I have run across one rare exception, but the rest ... you can tell that they're driven by ulterior motives, namely, that of finding any way possible to undermine EENS dogma.


Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Justification, the BoD of the Catechumen, and Classical "Feeneyism"
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2026, 03:56:56 PM »


Here is Saint Alphonsus’ treatise on the Council of Trent: 

https://lib.undercaffeinated.xyz/get/pdf/10221

Online Ladislaus

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Re: Justification, the BoD of the Catechumen, and Classical "Feeneyism"
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2026, 04:07:31 PM »

Here is Saint Alphonsus’ treatise on the Council of Trent:

https://lib.undercaffeinated.xyz/get/pdf/10221

Probably better in the Library section?

Online Ladislaus

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Re: Justification, the BoD of the Catechumen, and Classical "Feeneyism"
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2026, 07:13:13 PM »
This is a childishly simple question to answer. The answer is yes. For exactly the same reason that someone with perfect contrition must still go to confession ASAP if they were in a state of mortal sin.

So, it's already been splained to you, the Sacrament of Baptism is absolutely necessary by necessity of means for salvation, and even the Council of Trent explicitly teaches that Baptism and Confession are very different.  Baptism is the gateway to the other Sacraments, and, is a "character" Sacrament, and just like no one can have "Holy Orders of Desire", similarly, no one can have Baptism of Desire.

Now, someone in mortal sin can be restored to a state of justification by perfect contrition COMBINED WITH the intention to go to Confession.  Almost everyone forgets that second part.  But, the Sacraments cannot justify anyone who's not already part of the Church's Sacramental life, and so Confession cannot profit unto salvation for those who are not already baptized.

Baptism:  Sacramental Character + Justification, and Initial Justification is Rebirth, and remits Original Sin, guilt of actual sin, and all temporal punishment due to sin.
Confession:  restores to justification to the baptized who had lost their state of Justification after Baptism (a re-Justification, as it were)

Completely different animals, where Confession is not a complete rebirth as is the Initial Justification of Baptism, and does not bring with it the Sacramental Character that makes people members of the Church, giving them the "DNA" of Christ, as it were/

Baptism makes non-members of the Church into members of the Church.
Confession restores dead members of the Church to life.

First is a new birth into a new creation, the second a revivification of that new creation.

You're comparing apples to oranges ... so, despite delcaring it "childishly simple", your merely show yourself idiot.