Author Topic: Justification by BOD and Being Born Again (Read 3518 times)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #30 on:** January 24, 2014, 09:09:49 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Does anyone have a count on how many times Jesus stresses water compared to how many times He stresses believing without mentioning the necessity of water. There is one famous time where He mentions water and obviously water is implied at the final commission where He commands His disciples, but how many times when speaking about what is necessary to be saved does He avoid the mention of water but rather stresses the need to believe, conversion of heart, being like little children, loving God and neighbor etc? I'd be curious to know.

I know the Protestants are found of taking one verse and pitting it against countless others that disagree with their interpretation of that one verse. The Feeneyites obviously do the same thing. But I am interested in an actual statistic pertaining to Gospel verses on what is necessary for salvation.

Additionally to the good willed people of the Feeneyite persuasion I would be curious to know if you:

a: Believe Jesus condemns to Hell some for sins they are not culpable of

b: If Augustine, Ambrose, Bernard, Aquinas, Trent, Bellarmine, Alphonsus, Pius IX, Pius XII, etc. misunderstood John 3:5.

If so, who can we look to?

If not, where does that leave us?

Again this is addressed to the honest and good-willed. I am not really looking for responses that ignore the questions and or refrains from answering them honestly, dispassionately and objectively.

I'm still waiting. Perhaps bowler is taking my advice and avoiding topics that our out of his league as he has proven repeatedly with great impunity.

Please see above. Since you opine so much on the topic I would like to see an answer to my questions. Why do you not not respond?

bowler · « **Reply #31 on:** January 24, 2014, 09:14:02 AM »

My comments in red:

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Does anyone have a count on how many times Jesus stresses water compared to how many times He stresses believing without mentioning the necessity of water. There is one famous time where He mentions water and obviously water is implied at the final commission where He commands His disciples, but how many times when speaking about what is necessary to be saved does He avoid the mention of water but rather stresses the need to believe, conversion of heart, being like little children, loving God and neighbor etc? I'd be curious to know. (LOT uses self interpretation of scripture against Trent's dogmatic definition of the term Born Again)

I know the Protestants are found of taking one verse and pitting it against countless others that disagree with their interpretation of that one verse. The Feeneyites obviously do the same thing. But I am interested in an actual statistic pertaining to Gospel verses on what is necessary for salvation. (LOT uses self interpretation of scripture against Trent's dogmatic definition of "Born Again", but yet accuses me of self interpreting scripture)

Additionally to the good willed people of the Feeneyite persuasion I would be curious to know if you: a: Believe Jesus condemns to Hell some for sins they are not culpable of(strawman)

b: If Augustine, Ambrose, Bernard, Aquinas, Trent, Bellarmine, Alphonsus, Pius IX, Pius XII, etc. misunderstood John 3:5. (LOT lies and inaccuracies about what the Fathers Augustine & Ambrose taught. Never a mention of any clear dogmas. Another end run)

If so, who can we look to?

If not, where does that leave us?

Again this is addressed to the honest and good-willed. (If you were honest and good willed you would not post all these end run lies and inaccuracies) I am not really looking for responses that ignore the questions and or refrains from answering them honestly, dispassionately and objectively.

I'm still waiting. Perhaps bowler is taking my advice and avoiding topics that our out of his league as he has proven repeatedly with great impunity.

Go back to your sedevacates threads, where you can wing it since there is no precedent for our current situation. You can't wing it here.

SJB · « **Reply #32 on:** January 24, 2014, 09:24:15 AM »

Quote from: SJB

NO Catholic teaches or understands things the way you do, that's why you have a hatred for approved sources and catechisms.

Bowler, if you'd just show even one Catholic who understands what you say you understand, maybe you'd have at least a weak argument as to your orthodoxy.

Where do you assist at Mass? Do you assist at Mass? I've asked you this question before, and you'd dodged it repeatedly.

bowler · « **Reply #33 on:** January 24, 2014, 09:53:10 AM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: SJB
NO Catholic teaches or understands things the way you do, that's why you have a hatred for approved sources and catechisms.

Bowler, if you'd just show even one Catholic who understands what you say you understand, maybe you'd have at least a weak argument as to your orthodoxy.

Where do you assist at Mass? Do you assist at Mass? I've asked you this question before, and you'd dodged it repeatedly.

That's another end run.

See reality: see "Quotes that BODers Say Must Not be Understood as Written"

The BODers really just ignore all those dogmas, for there is no way any normal thinking person could say ALL of them should not be read as they are written.

SJB · « **Reply #34 on:** January 24, 2014, 09:55:45 AM »

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: SJB
Quote from: SJB
NO Catholic teaches or understands things the way you do, that's why you have a hatred for approved sources and catechisms.

Bowler, if you'd just show even one Catholic who understands what you say you understand, maybe you'd have at least a weak argument as to your orthodoxy.

Where do you assist at Mass? Do you assist at Mass? I've asked you this question before, and you'd dodged it repeatedly.

That's another end run.

See reality: see "Quotes that BODers Say Must Not be Understood as Written"

The BODers really just ignore all those dogmas, for there is no way any normal thinking person could say ALL of them should not be read as they are written.

No normal person would think that NOBODY has ever noticed what you claim to have discovered.