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Author Topic: John 3:5  (Read 36010 times)

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #290 on: August 11, 2017, 10:29:25 AM »
The theological experts and duly appointed authorities make the claim.  Catholics sit at their feet and learn.  Prideful heretics call them heretics. 

It is impossible when a catechumen dies before receiving it for instance as one can not get baptized after having died. 
Please spec. exactly who is calling them heretics? If you don't, it is reasonable to conclude that you engage in yet more irrelevancy and worse.

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #291 on: August 11, 2017, 10:43:13 AM »
This is why I've ignored you in the past.  You ask a question.  I answer it.  Then you come back claiming I said something completely different than I said. 

Your "objection" works both ways.  Who says God it is impossible for God to baptize anyone at anytime? 

>More conflation. God cannot lie. You curiously omit MEANS which He has REVEALED, and so CANNOT CONTRADICT. (conflating "What" with "how") Your god is arbitrary, breaks his word, is accidentally Allah and so, substantially, Satan. You have NO Catholic faith.

No one.  Who says God cannot cleanse the soul without water?  No one.  Who teaches Baptism of the Holy Ghost which is known ad "Baptism of Desire"  The Roman Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.


"Your father is the Devil…"



Re: John 3:5
« Reply #292 on: August 11, 2017, 10:54:59 AM »
This is why I've ignored you in the past.  You ask a question.  I answer it.  Then you come back claiming I said something completely different than I said. 

Your "objection" works both ways.  Who says God it is impossible for God to baptize anyone at anytime?  No one.  Who says God cannot cleanse the soul without water?  No one.  Who teaches Baptism of the Holy Ghost which is known ad "Baptism of Desire"  The Roman Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.

Also, without getting into the Theological weeds, specifically regarding causes, who says anyone but God >ultimately < "does" any of the sacraments which, arguendo, would include their alleged substitutes?

In short, yeah God can dostuff; your point?

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #293 on: August 11, 2017, 10:57:21 AM »
The theological experts and duly appointed authorities make the claim.  Catholics sit at their feet and learn.  Prideful heretics call them heretics. 

It is impossible when a catechumen dies before receiving it for instance as one can not get baptized after having died. 
So much for resurrections…
"God can do anyting… it is impossible…"

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #294 on: August 11, 2017, 11:06:42 AM »
Sarcasm alert - Liguori's shoe-horn theory:

"Baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called "of wind" ["flaminis"] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost who is called a wind ["flamen"]. Now it is "de fide" that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam, "de presbytero non baptizato" and of the Council of Trent, session 6, Chapter 4 where it is said that no one can be saved 'without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.'" 

 Moral Theology, Bk. 6, nn. 95-97: "Baptism of blood is the shedding of one's blood, i.e. death, suffered for the faith or for some other Christian virtue. Now this Baptism is comparable to true baptism because, like true Baptism, it remits both guilt and punishment as it were ex opere operato… Hence martyrdom avails also for infants seeing that the Church venerates the Holy Innocents as true martyrs. That is why Suarez rightly teaches that the opposing view is at least temerarious."

On the Council of Trent, 1846, Pg. 128-129 (Duffy): "Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament."

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