Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: John 3:5  (Read 34176 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #275 on: August 11, 2017, 09:13:14 AM »
Unbapised priests…. wow, maybe they were ordained by desire too.… "It's a mystery"
Denzinger 388: Pope Innocent II

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #276 on: August 11, 2017, 09:13:44 AM »
St. Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church (18th century): Moral Theology, Book 6, Section II (About Baptism and Confirmation), Chapter 1 (On Baptism), page 310, no. 96:

Quote
"Baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called "of wind" ["flaminis"] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost who is called a wind ["flamen"]. Now it is "de fide" that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam, "de presbytero non baptizato" and of the Council of Trent, session 6, Chapter 4 where it is said that no one can be saved 'without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.'"

 Moral Theology, Bk. 6, nn. 95-97: "Baptism of blood is the shedding of one's blood, i.e. death, suffered for the faith or for some other Christian virtue. Now this Baptism is comparable to true baptism because, like true Baptism, it remits both guilt and punishment as it were ex opere operato… Hence martyrdom avails also for infants seeing that the Church venerates the Holy Innocents as true martyrs. That is why Suarez rightly teaches that the opposing view is at least temerarious."

On the Council of Trent, 1846, Pg. 128-129 (Duffy): "Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament."

But along came the 21st century lay-bloggers and decided they could "develop" doctrine to the point where it teaches the opposite of what it used to teach.  :facepalm:


Re: John 3:5
« Reply #277 on: August 11, 2017, 09:16:40 AM »
Where were you when Bellarmine and Liguori needed you?
Where ARE you when someone asks an honest question?

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #278 on: August 11, 2017, 09:18:14 AM »
Unbapised priests…. wow, maybe they were ordained by desire too.… "It's a mystery"

Where were you when Pope Innocent needed you?  I believe this was the case of a Catholic priest who, it turned out later, had never been validly baptized.  In other words, he wasn’t a valid priest but he was thought to be one.  Or Innocent was a big dummy who didn't know what you know.  I'm not sure which.  Maybe I'll check with the Dimonds.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: John 3:5
« Reply #279 on: August 11, 2017, 09:26:26 AM »
By desire when sacramental baptism is impossible.  
Elaborate on this or stop making this claim already.

Describe a circuмstance wherein it is impossible for God to Provide the sacrament to the presumed sincere individual.