Author Topic: John 3:5 (Read 36227 times)

ihsv · « **Reply #55 on:** October 30, 2015, 02:43:32 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

I am not here to argue.

That much is certain. Cutting and pasting doesn't qualify.

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

I am not a theologian, never imagined for myself any authority to teach other than to repeat what was already taught.

I think most on this board would agree that you're not a theologian, and that you have no authority to teach.

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

I do not care for opinion or conjecture, these are tools of error.

You seem to put a lot of stock in opinion and conjecture. That's essentially all you've been cutting and pasting.

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

... so please, impress me with your skills, and bring your 'A' game, no?

I'm not interested in impressing you. Neither am I so emotionally charged and insecure that I need to demonstrate my "skills" to others.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #56 on:** October 30, 2015, 03:07:23 PM »

Fair enough.

Next.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #57 on:** October 30, 2015, 03:21:12 PM »

Quote from: Fr. Dominic Prummer, O.P.

"Baptism of Desire which is a perfect act of charity that includes at least implicitly the desire of Baptism by water" - Moral Theology, 1949

Stubborn · « **Reply #58 on:** October 30, 2015, 05:01:07 PM »

Here are a few quotations, please use these to defend a BOD.

Quote from: Annotations

.... as the Heretikes hold, that say water is not necessary, but with water and the holy Ghost, as it is plaine, John iii., unless a man be borne again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom, of heaven.

no more can a man enter into the life and state of grace which is in Christ, or attaine to life everlasting, unless he be borne and baptized of water and the Holy Ghost.

Quote from: St. Alphonsus

The heretics say that no sacrament is necessary, inasmuch as they hold that man is justified by faith alone, and that the sacraments only serve to excite and nourish this faith, which (as they say) can be equally excited and nourished by preaching. But this is certainly false, and is condemned in the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth canons: for as we know from the Scriptures, some of the sacraments are necessary (necessitate Medii) as a means without which salvation is impossible. Thus Baptism is necessary for all, Penance for them who have fallen into sin after Baptism, and the Eucharist is necessary for all at least in desire ( in voto)

Quote from: St. Ambrose

'One is the Baptism which the Church administers: the Baptism of water and the Holy Ghost, with which catechumens need to be baptized . . . Nor does the mystery of regeneration exist at all without water: 'For unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom.' Now, even the
catechumen believes in the cross of the Lord Jesus, with which he also signs himself; but, unless he be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace."

Cantarella · « **Reply #59 on:** October 30, 2015, 05:14:04 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

Quote from: Fr. Dominic Prummer, O.P.
"Baptism of Desire which is a perfect act of charity that includes at least implicitly the desire of Baptism by water" - Moral Theology, 1949

The Baptism of Desire is the Desire (votum) for the Baptism of Water. Agreed?

It follows that an "invincible ignorant" or someone in the blindness of false religion cannot have it.

How could an invincible ignorant (hypothetical native, anonymous Christian, benevolent non-Catholic relative, etc) have an actual desire (votum) to receive sacramental Baptism if he does not know of the need or existence of the sacrament in the first place?