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Author Topic: John 3:5  (Read 32355 times)

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #295 on: August 11, 2017, 11:24:02 AM »
You're a deliberate twister of facts and truth. As acourtesy I'm notifying you that I will constrain .myself to what you say if c alled for and not you be cause you're a liar, a calumniator, and most likely a heretic if not apostate. Bye pls.

 
Sarcasm alert - Liguori's shoe-horn theory:

"Baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called "of wind" ["flaminis"] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost who is called a wind ["flamen"]. Now it is "de fide" that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam, "de presbytero non baptizato" and of the Council of Trent, session 6, Chapter 4 where it is said that no one can be saved 'without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.'"

Moral Theology, Bk. 6, nn. 95-97: "Baptism of blood is the shedding of one's blood, i.e. death, suffered for the faith or for some other Christian virtue. Now this Baptism is comparable to true baptism because, like true Baptism, it remits both guilt and punishment as it were ex opere operato… Hence martyrdom avails also for infants seeing that the Church venerates the Holy Innocents as true martyrs. That is why Suarez rightly teaches that the opposing view is at least temerarious."

On the Council of Trent, 1846, Pg. 128-129 (Duffy): "Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament."

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #296 on: August 11, 2017, 11:26:33 AM »
I wouldn't talk to Saint Alphonsus that way if I was you.


Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: John 3:5
« Reply #297 on: August 11, 2017, 11:28:05 AM »
Roses are red, violets are blue,
Except in some cases, as I'll now tell you,
Roses can be blue and violets red,
God can do anything, as He has said,
He created Commandments, a Church and the natural law,
With order and beauty - He foresaw all,
Yet the death of some men He cannot predict,
He knew not when the men's hearts would last tick,
For all eternity He knew these men would be,
But the Architect of the Universe could not see,
That these men would need water and baptismal grace,
Which He said was needed to see His heavenly face,
For death attacked them like a cunning beast,
And God knew they needed water and a priest,
Yet He is powerless as He watches them die,
To heaven and to His love they must say goodbye,
What kept them from the wedding garment, you ask?
They had the desire for it - alas!
God's Providence was not up to the task!
So since these men cannot reach their heavenly goal,
Because God is unable to help a willing soul,
There must be a way for God to change,
The rules and laws that He ordained,
Can He not dispense with any command?
Because it came to be by His own Hand?
Of course! He can allow an unbaptized man,
Entrance into the heavenly promised land,
Because He is God and His power is supreme,
Except when it comes to water, it would seem.

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #298 on: August 11, 2017, 11:29:54 AM »
I wouldn't talk to Saint Alphonsus that way if I was you.
See? Lie AND calumny twofer tantum.… vice is a vice.

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #299 on: August 11, 2017, 11:51:29 AM »
Reported, again. Likely waste of time
"Baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called "of wind" ["flaminis"] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost who is called a wind ["flamen"]. Now it is "de fide" that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam, "de presbytero non baptizato" and of the Council of Trent, session 6, Chapter 4 where it is said that no one can be saved 'without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.'"

Moral Theology, Bk. 6, nn. 95-97: "Baptism of blood is the shedding of one's blood, i.e. death, suffered for the faith or for some other Christian virtue. Now this Baptism is comparable to true baptism because, like true Baptism, it remits both guilt and punishment as it were ex opere operato… Hence martyrdom avails also for infants seeing that the Church venerates the Holy Innocents as true martyrs. That is why Suarez rightly teaches that the opposing view is at least temerarious."

On the Council of Trent, 1846, Pg. 128-129 (Duffy): "Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament."