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Author Topic: John 3:5  (Read 34283 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #240 on: August 10, 2017, 02:03:46 PM »
Unanswered:  So, how does one receive the supernatural gift of faith, which he gets from the church, if he doesn't know about the church?
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #241 on: August 10, 2017, 02:07:53 PM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 10, 2017, 01:57:06 PM
What cleanses the soul of Original Sin?  God or water?

Both.  If you studied theology/philosophy, you'd know there can be multiple causes involved in producing an effect.  God is the efficient cause (and to a large extent the formal cause) of this cleansing, whereas water is the instrumental cause.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #242 on: August 10, 2017, 02:11:43 PM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 10, 2017, 01:59:18 PM
As "you" have said repeatedly.  Please understand, and don't take offence.  I don't go by "you".  I go by the theologians, Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes. The distinction is essential in understanding the aforementioned on this particular topic.

You know, every time you have nothing theological/philosophical/logic to say about a subject, you just scamper back behind the trite "I go by the theologians ..." retort.

I repeat, this is not about what God CAN do but about what God DOES.  God CAN do all kinds of things, but God has willed to do certain things in certain ways.  What God CAN do pertains to God quoad se, whereas what God ACTUALLY DOES pertains to God quoad nos.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #243 on: August 10, 2017, 02:15:08 PM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 10, 2017, 01:57:06 PM
Do you deny Baptism of Blood?  Why didn't God just do a physical miracle and baptism them with water first?

I do not believe in BoB either.  We don't know why God didn't provide the Sacrament to them.  In SOME cases, God DID in fact work a miracle to provide Sacramental baptism to those about to suffer martyrdom.  As to why He may not have in other cases, you can ask Him yourself when you die.  You can ask also why He allows some infants to die without the Sacrament of Baptism.  We do not do theology based on speculation about what God SHOULD do in a particular circuŠ¼stance.
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Offline Lover of Truth

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #244 on: August 10, 2017, 02:16:06 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 10, 2017, 02:03:46 PM
Unanswered:  So, how does one receive the supernatural gift of faith, which he gets from the church, if he doesn't know about the church?
Babies have the three theological infused in them by Baptism.  Did the adults who converted to Faith have Faith before they were baptized?  

By grace you are saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; for it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man may glory.  Saint Paul

A potential convert can receive supernatural faith through God revealing i.e. through the Catholic Church or some miracle. 
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