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Author Topic: John 3:5  (Read 36039 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #200 on: August 10, 2017, 09:33:09 AM »
The difference between us our understanding of the English language.  In this topic, I reject any theologian post 1900 who isn't a saint.  Modernism had already crept into the Church in the 1800s.  If we were to concentrate our debate only on Bellarmine or Liguori and the popes, we might get somewhere.
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Offline Lover of Truth

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #201 on: August 10, 2017, 09:35:57 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 10, 2017, 09:33:09 AM
The difference between us our understanding of the English language.  In this topic, I reject any theologian post 1900 who isn't a saint.  Modernism had already crept into the Church in the 1800s.  If we were to concentrate our debate only on Bellarmine or Liguori and the popes, we might get somewhere.
Okay.  Let's do so.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #202 on: August 10, 2017, 10:09:40 AM »
Really, I would also exclude Bellarmine and Liguori too.  They are fallible theologians, as much as I love them.  Their opinion is not anywhere near the same level as papal pronouncements.  Being a saint does not give them an authority to bind anyone to believe x, y or z.  Only the Church can do so, therefore, on this topic, where there is so much confusion, we must stick with only those binding, infallible statements.
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Offline Lover of Truth

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #203 on: August 10, 2017, 11:20:14 AM »
Too bad.  Then there is no one at all we can trust to explain papal pronouncements to us.  We have to do like the 21st century lay Feeneyites do it.  And come to their conclusion or a completely different conclusion based upon our own intellect rather than the authorized theologians, Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes.  That is pretty sad. And wrong of course.  I thought we might get somewhere but admitting both Bellarmine and Liguori is admitting too much for someone pinned in or your interpretation.  I say this will all due respect as a last ditch effort to get you to grasp the point.  

I also say it for anyone of good will who has watched the discussion.  Please trust those systematically trained and authorized to understand theology to interpret Trent correctly. 

In regards to Pius IX and Pius XII do we go with the "they are not infallible" or "they did not teach what they appeared to teach"?

I wish you the best.  Pray for me and I will pray for you.  
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John 3:5
« Reply #204 on: August 10, 2017, 11:49:15 AM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 10, 2017, 07:22:24 AM
Please understand that I state the following respectfully, I'm not talking down to you.  Theologians use terms that some lay-people have difficulty with because they are able to make various distinctions. 

Oh, please, give me a break.  You have repeatedly demonstrated that you are incapable of comprehending even the most elementary of distinctions.
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