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Author Topic: John 3:5  (Read 36312 times)

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John 3:5
« Reply #170 on: August 09, 2016, 03:12:29 PM »
Quote from: Pope Pius IX, in Singulari Quadam,
174. "It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood. On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord."

John 3:5
« Reply #171 on: August 12, 2016, 04:02:27 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Pope Pius IX, in Singulari Quadam,
174. "It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood. On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord."


Dogma refiners interpret according to their own desires. This quote is a big one for them. They reject the clear Athansian Creed, and other clear dogmas like say Trent and Florence (see below), and then make an encyclical from the late 1800's say something it does not say, by making "are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord", into meaning that people can be saved without belief in the Trinity and the Incarnation, thus denying directly the dogmatic Athanasian Creed.  

Chapter VII.

What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof.

the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which no man was ever justified;

Council of Trent. Seventh Session. March, 1547. Decree on the Sacraments.
On Baptism

Canon 2. If anyone shall say that real and natural water is not necessary for baptism, and on that account those words of our Lord Jesus Christ: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5), are distorted into some metaphor: let him be anathema.

Canon 5. If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema

Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, “Exultate Deo,” Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:  “Holy baptism, which is the gateway to the spiritual life, holds the first place among all the sacraments; through it we are made members of Christ and of the body of the Church.  And since death entered the universe through the first man, ‘unless we are born again of water and the Spirit, we cannot,’ as the Truth says, ‘enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5].  The matter of this sacrament is real and natural water.”





Offline Stubborn

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John 3:5
« Reply #172 on: August 12, 2016, 05:50:40 AM »
Our Lord said, "Unless a man be born of water and the Holy Ghost he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven." This water means literally water, poured on you, sprinkled on you, or into which you are immersed. Our Lord can speak metaphorically, as must everyone who speaks at all, at times. But with regard to this water, He is not so speaking. Nothing in His utterance indicates this; nothing in the practice of the Church vouchsafes it; and nothing in the teachings of the Doctors or the definitions of the Popes, the behavior of the Apostles, or the manner of dying of the martyrs, will allow the water Christ refers to, to be other than the water of the kind He was immersed in the River Jordan, when His Father’s voice was saying, "This is My Beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased." (Matt. 3:17.)

When you hear a theologian saying, "I know that was what Christ said, but first we must understand what He means," you know you have a skeptic on your hands, who is blasphemously trying to improve on the utterances of Jesus. He is implicitly telling you that Jesus gave us vague notions as to what Baptism meant, and that he (the theologian) is now going to clarify this matter. - Fr. Feeney

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #173 on: August 03, 2017, 03:20:06 PM »



It seems like people in here are willfully opposing with Church teaching

Re: John 3:5
« Reply #174 on: August 03, 2017, 03:33:38 PM »
Can you produce a single Church quote that explicitly says there is no Baptism of Desire?  I can easily produce quote after quote from Church authorities that explicitly teach Baptism of Desire.
This here above was the original challenge made to the members who deny the the Church teaches BoD and BoB.