Author Topic: John 3:5 (Read 36185 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #160 on:** March 14, 2016, 11:37:00 AM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

It is hard for me to imagine that this Scripture Annotation is in error. Is there any authoritative Church source that has ever made the same claim as you are making here?

Yes, from the highest authority in the Church, it has been infallibly decreed at the Council of Trent's Seventh Session, on The Sacraments in General, Canon IV.

Trent infallibly decrees that "If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous;.....let him be anathema."

A BOD is not a sacrament, therefore having a desire to be baptized cannot save anyone apart from the sacrament.

And again during the Council of Trent's same session Seven, The Sacraments in General, under heading of Baptism, Trent infallibly decreed in Canon V that "If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema."

That is not all Trent decreed about the necessity of the sacrament of Baptism for salvation, but as long as people choose to ignore the infallible teachings and seek loop holes from other sources, this debate will always amount to those who accept dogma without exception vs all the rest.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #161 on:** April 11, 2016, 04:49:08 PM »

Council of Trent teaches

Canons on the Sacraments in General: - (Canon 4):
"If anyone shall say that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation, but are superfluous, and that although all are not necessary for every individual, without them or without the desire of them (sine eis aut eorum voto), through faith alone men obtain from God the grace of justification; let him be anathema."

Decree on Justification - (Session 6, Chapter 4):
"In these words a description of the justification of a sinner is given as being a translation from that state in which man is born a child of the first Adam to the state of grace and of the 'adoption of the Sons' (Rom. 8:15) of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Savior and this translation after the promulgation of the Gospel cannot be effected except through the laver of regeneration or a desire for it, (sine lavacro regenerationis aut eius voto) as it is written: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter in the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #162 on:** July 01, 2016, 10:31:04 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ According to Saint John
3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The Scripture Annotation for John 3:5 (provided) says (in the margin note) "Baptism in two cases not necessary but otherwise supplied".

It's pretty basic, your Scripture annotation for John 3:5 is wrong. (says who?)

The Scripture Annotation for John 3:5 was scanned from this Bible:

It is hard for me to imagine that this Scripture Annotation is in error. Is there any authoritative Church source that has ever made the same claim as you are making here?

I'll repeat the question, "Is there any authoritative Church source that has ever made the same claim as you are making here?"

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #163 on:** July 26, 2016, 03:55:18 PM »

Yes or no is an acceptable answer.

Stubborn · « **Reply #164 on:** July 27, 2016, 05:38:06 AM »

As I already said, the answer is yes. John 3:5 itself contradicts your scripture annotation. I honestly do not understand why you would think otherwise.

This contradiction is aptly demonstrated by the question asked by forum member ihsv earlier in this thread.....

Quote from: John 3:5

Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Can a man enter the Kingdom of God without being born again of water and the Holy Ghost?

Yes or no is an acceptable answer.