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Author Topic: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)  (Read 42179 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2022, 07:30:45 PM »
Exactly, and it's a convenient excuse to keep claiming St. Alphonsus, St. Thomas Aquinas, and other theologians only expounded fallible opinions on this issue!

Idiotic and bad-willled dishonesty.  So, what, then, theologians are infallible?  Well, of course, only when you want them to be.

At risk of repeating myself from the other thread:
Quote
Garbage.  Burden of proof is on you jokers who claim that the "real meaning" of these dogmas is actually the opposite of what they actually say.  You make an absolute mockery of the Magisterium by claiming that people who hold that the dogma that there's no salvation outside the Church actually means that there's no salvation outside the Church, and that when Trent teaches that Baptism is necessary for salvation that, well, it means that Baptism is necessary for salvation.  Your quasi-gnostic bullshit that Catholics are required to assimilate and to absorb and regurgitate 2 pages of distinctions until the dogmas mean the opposite of what they say and you have the diabolical temerity and perversity to declare heretics people who believe that the Church's dogmas mean what they say and not, if you "properly understand it", the exact opposite.

You guys are a sick joke.  Let me guess.  You're another idiot dogmatic SV Cekadist who thinks that theologians are infallible ... except of course when theologians (and all the world's bishops) universally approved Vatican II, or that Popes are infallible every time they pass wind, except of course when Pius XII issued the 1955 Holy Week Rites, as those were actually Modernist.  But when some forged docuмent appears claiming to be approved by Pius XII even though it's never published by the Vatican, but only by the arch-Modernist persecutor of Father Feeney (in which case he's actually a champion of the faith, preserving the Church from Feeneyite wickedness) ... but when Pius XII actually approves of something, officially, like the 1955 Holy Week Rites, well, suddenly he's not infallible.

You guys are a sick joke and are perverted by your diabolical refusal to accept EENS dogma.  You also condemn yourselves as schismatics, because all of Vatican II that you claim is heretical derives from YOUR ecclesiology.

Or if you're an R&R anti-Feeneyite (like a few on here), the absurd joke that an Ecuмenical Council can teach grave error, along with 60 years of papal Magisterium, but now under pain of heresy people have to accept the fraudulent "Suprema Haec".

You're both sick jokes.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2022, 07:32:03 PM »
The other explanation is that the Limbo of the Just is a quasi-paradise.  It’s just not THE paradise.  So, in fact, Christ and St Dismas did go to paradise THAT DAY.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2022, 07:36:13 PM »
There are PLENTY of pre-V2 theologians who taught as Fr Feeney did, using the very strict explanation of Trent and water Baptism.  But they were ignored and drowned out by the louder (and more advertised) modernist view. 

Fr Wathen, in the first few chapters of his book “Who Shall Ascend?” quotes pages,  upon pages, upon pages of 1700-1800s theologians who upheld the strict necessity of water.  

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2022, 07:39:13 PM »
More and more, I find that the Dimond Brothers are right in pointing out bad will.

Bad will manifests itself into the external forum when people contradict themselves as pointed out above and yet zealously promote both contradictory propositions as if they were dogmatically true.

Like when Bishops Sanborn lost the debate to Dr. Fastiggi.  He claimed that the Vatican II ecclesiology was heretical, due to the notion of partial communion ecclesiology, but then, admitting that non-Catholics can be saved [and often stating outside the debate that believing OTHERWISE is heretical], basically promoted the same partial communion ecclesiology.

It's so simple and obvious that a first grader can understand.

MAJOR:  There's no salvation outside the Church.
MINOR:  Various heretics, schismatics, infidels (non-Catholics) can be saved.
CONCLUSION:  Various heretics, schismatics, infldels (non-Catholics) can be inside the Church.  [to be saved they have to be within the Church before they die, per EENS dogmatic definition ... and can't somehow mystically be joined to the Church at death]

Hmmm.  So now we have these heretics inside the Church, despite not being in "full communion" and despite only partially (in varying degrees) accepting Catholic teaching.

Darn if that isn't the same ecclesiology that you just condemned as heretical in Vatican II.

BTW, I have never had one of these Sanborn-Cekadist types refute or even ATTEMPT to refute the above argument ... which is actually irrefutable.  And they know it.  So they simply ignore it and keep carrying on promoting both contradictory positions with dogmatic certainty.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2022, 07:55:22 PM »
There are PLENTY of pre-V2 theologians who taught as Fr Feeney did, using the very strict explanation of Trent and water Baptism.  But they were ignored and drowned out by the louder (and more advertised) modernist view.

Fr Wathen, in the first few chapters of his book “Who Shall Ascend?” quotes pages,  upon pages, upon pages of 1700-1800s theologians who upheld the strict necessity of water. 

And even IF there weren't any, Cekadism that holds that theologians are infallible is utterly absurd and has no basis in Catholic theology ... only in his own mind, and only when it's convenient.  Somehow they ceased to be infallible at Vatican II when they unanimously supported Vatican II and the NOM (with the single exception of Guerard des Lauriers).

Popes are infallible every time they pass wind ... well, except for the 1955 Holy Week Rites ... which were Modernist, defective, and harmful.

Pay no attention, of course, when for 700 years every theologian taught the erroneous position of St. Augustine on fate of infants who die unbaptized.

It is impious and grave sin to reject the unanimous teaching of theologians ... well, except when, after 1500 years of absolute unanimity that explicit faith in and knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity are necessary for salvation, a few Jesuit (and one Franciscan) came along and rejected that 1500 years of unanimous teaching with their innovation of Rewarder God theory.  That was OK for them to do, and, according to Father Cekada, they were right.  And just ignore the fact that the Holy Office explicitly rejected Rewarder God theory.  But when the "Holy Office" issued SH (most likely a fraud), darn it if you're not a heretic if you reject that.

Theologians are infallible when they want them to be, but not when they don't want them to be.