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Author Topic: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)  (Read 41951 times)

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Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2022, 05:34:27 PM »
See my edit.
No, it's your understanding that's so off. Nothing else. It's funny how you say the Church has failed so badly, allowing wrong teachings to be taught in the Trent Catechism so soon after its ending. No, you and the Feeneyites are way off.



Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2022, 05:43:59 PM »
Not a Feeneyite. I'm a Catholic.

Theologians speculating on very specific, and restrictive, matters on BoD is not a wider teaching by the Church. Ss. Alphonsus and Thomas holding an opinion on whether a catechumen can get to heaven without water baptism is leagues different from Trad Bishops and Priests preaching that a Jєω, Muslim, or pagan can get to heaven without water baptism.
My trouble here is: where are the priests who disagree with them? Where have they been in the last 50 years? Even Fr. Feeney was just a voice in the wilderness who was widely dismissed. How can the entire hierarchy of the Church, Trad or otherwise, be wrong for this long?

Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2022, 05:47:18 PM »
My trouble here is: where are the priests who disagree with them? Where have they been in the last 50 years? Even Fr. Feeney was just a voice in the wilderness who was widely dismissed. How can the entire hierarchy of the Church, Trad or otherwise, be wrong for this long?
Exactly, and it's a convenient excuse to keep claiming St. Alphonsus, St. Thomas Aquinas, and other theologians only expounded fallible opinions on this issue!

Re: John 3:5 defined as Dogma at Trent, Theologian admits (video)
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2022, 06:47:19 PM »
Exactly, and it's a convenient excuse to keep claiming St. Alphonsus, St. Thomas Aquinas, and other theologians only expounded fallible opinions on this issue!
Almost as convenient to hide behind their interpretations of BoD in order to promote a Pelagian version of it where everyone can be saved if they have a nice feeling about Jesus! Whereas those of us who disagree with Ss. Thomas and Alphonsus are seen as arrogant or heretics by holding fast, with two Councils, to the necessity of water baptism! :jester:

What next? Are you going to trot out Ss. Augustine and Ambrose to try and argue for BoD? Despite the overwhelming majority of the Fathers supporting the necessity of water baptism?

Again, Ss. Alphonus and Thomas were talking specifically about Catechumens possibly being saved without water baptism. Not Jєωs, Pagans, or Muslims, et al, like the modern Trad bishops and priests!

My trouble here is: where are the priests who disagree with them? Where have they been in the last 50 years? Even Fr. Feeney was just a voice in the wilderness who was widely dismissed. How can the entire hierarchy of the Church, Trad or otherwise, be wrong for this long?
I don't know, probably because the Modernists had already crept their way up the ranks by the time Fr. Feeney was "condemned" by that heretic Cushing? That many priests and bishops thought some error was the true teaching doesn't dismiss the point that what is commonly understood as BoD today is a disgusting heresy (again, NOT talking about Ss. Alphonsus, Thomas, or Bellarmine's versions here). There's a reason that virtually all of the bishops accepted the religious indifferentism of Vatican II. The Crisis didn't just come out of nowhere overnight.