Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => The Feeneyism Ghetto => Topic started by: InfiniteFaith on May 05, 2013, 01:14:44 PM
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Do you think there might be Jews out there that fall into the category of Baptism of Desire thus giving them a chance for Salvation? I imagine if there are then there would be few of them. Even if there are I still think we should deport them to Israel for the sake of Christianity. What do you think?
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I can't imagine how one could belong to a religion that is predicated on denying the divinity of Jesus Christ could simultaneously desire to be baptized into His Mystical Body. I think they call these propositions "mutually exclusive."
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I can't imagine how one could belong to a religion that is predicated on denying the divinity of Jesus Christ could simultaneously desire to be baptized into His Mystical Body. I think they call these propositions "mutually exclusive."
So basically you are saying that people who reject Jesus Christ do not get the Baptism of Desire? I think I might agree with you on that.
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I do think all of the Christ-haters should be deported back to Israhell, and all foreign aid to Israhell needs to end now. Let the "chosen people" fend for themselves, too. If they are so "chosen", then why do they need over $ 3 BILLION a year of American tax dollars, and why do they need the U.S. to fight their wars or back them up whenever they initiate conflicts? Charges against Dov Zakheim, Michael Chertoff, Larry Silverstein, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, etc., all of whom were involved in the 9/11 attacks, need to be brought to justice, too. :judge:
(Btw, I didn't thumb you down)
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There will be a remnant of the Jews that will convert to Christianity before the end of the world. I would think that these would not be the Zionists, but members of the 12 tribes.
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Your definition of Baptism of Desire is inaccurate. What you're describing is invincible ignorance.
No, there is no such thing as a "good" Jew. A person who rejects Our Lord Jesus Christ is not "good", but rather is a godless person who is on the path to hell.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
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I pray each day for the conversion of the Jews. On another point many people will be familiar with Birobidjan
http://www.tellingfilms.co.uk/
The Jєωιѕн Republic homeland
is in Russia's South-East
(the size of Switzerland)
All-Round Common Sense Campaign
for rationalising the First Jєωιѕн Homeland - Birobidjan, capital of the Jєωιѕн Autonomous Region (J.A.R.) - as the Sole and Safe Jєωιѕн Homeland - thus restoring Palestinian sovereignty and former tranquillity in the Middle East.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
We're talking about "Jєωιѕн" in the religious sense of the word. In that sense, they would not be Jєωιѕн.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
Then why do they say that some people "look" Jєωιѕн? Hooked noses, etc. Jєωιѕн last names, that kind of thing.
That has not been my experience, I have to admit-none of the few Jews that I have known "looked Jєωιѕн" or had stereotypical "Jєωιѕн" last names. But I would have to think there is some kind of racial/ethnic component to Jєωιѕнness, right?
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They're called Russian Jews, not Jєωιѕн Russians.
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They're called Russian Jews, not Jєωιѕн Russians.
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So you think that Jєωιѕнness is racial, then? It's not something that can be got rid of by becoming Catholic?
I heard a theory once that there is a kind of racial curse on Jews, because of the Deicide. Does anyone know any more about this? Would it be something that could be removed by conversion, if it exists?
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A Jew that converts to the genuine and authentic Traditional Roman Catholic faith is a very heroic and noble person and I feel happy and humble about that fact that I share the same divine and righteous faith with them. Any person that converts to the real traditional and epic Christianity, -Our Beloved Mother Church - and take there spiritual practice in their everyday life seriously is my brother and sister.
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They have much to answer for. Even a little book I have on William Joyce states from his letter "In death, as in this life, I defy the Jews who caused this last war: and I defy the power of Darkness which they represent". In reality Germany and England could of been friends.Just one example.
But in reality since their killing of God, they have never stopped. Auschwitz has been their shield in recent times.
Even now they have launched attacks on Syria with the support of America, who they have in their pocket.
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A Jew that converts to the genuine and authentic Traditional Roman Catholic faith is a very heroic and noble person and I feel happy and humble about that fact that I share the same divine and righteous faith with them. Any person that converts to the real traditional and epic Christianity, -Our Beloved Mother Church - and take there spiritual practice in their everyday life seriously is my brother and sister.
Indeed. There have been several converts.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
Thats the thing you have to worry about with those people.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
I still think Judaism is a race. There has to be some people today who are descendants of the tribes of Israel. Those people I would say are Jews by race. Then there are converts after that.
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Do you think there might be Jews out there that fall into the category of Baptism of Desire thus giving them a chance for Salvation? I imagine if there are then there would be few of them. Even if there are I still think we should deport them to Israel for the sake of Christianity. What do you think?
1) No Father of the Church or saint ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit faith in a God that rewards
2) No Father of the Church ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit baptism of desire.
3) I can't even remember now what one Father of the Church taught that a catechumen with explicit desire to be baptized could be saved. And please don't say it was St. Ambrose or St. Augustine.
4) Some Fathers did teach baptism of blood, but I never heard of any examples of BOB martyrs in the last 1800 years (If there really ever were any. There is no way to know that they were not baptized)
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I don't think it is possible to believe in the Jєωιѕн religion and be "good." I thought it was not possible for anyone to be "good" without the Catholic Faith.
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I remember there was a Religious Order of Jєωιѕн Catholic Converts
whose purpose was to convert the Jews to Catholicism. This order
published many excellent books aimed at the conversion of the
Jews. This Religious Order was one of the first casualty when
Vatican 2 was implemented. Many of their fine books had to be
rewritten to fit the new orientation on the Jews following
Vatican 2.
I wonder if anyone would remember the name of this
Religious Order.
This order was founded and staffed by Jєωιѕн Converts.
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I remember there was a Religious Order of Jєωιѕн Catholic Converts
whose purpose was to convert the Jews to Catholicism. This order
published many excellent books aimed at the conversion of the
Jews. This Religious Order was one of the first casualty when
Vatican 2 was implemented. Many of their fine books had to be
rewritten to fit the new orientation on the Jews following
Vatican 2.
I wonder if anyone would remember the name of this
Religious Order.
This order was founded and staffed by Jєωιѕн Converts.
Congregation of Our Lady of Sion ( Fr. Marie-Alphonse Ratisbonne) http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/c021rpRatisbonne02.html
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I remember there was a Religious Order of Jєωιѕн Catholic Converts
whose purpose was to convert the Jews to Catholicism. This order
published many excellent books aimed at the conversion of the
Jews. This Religious Order was one of the first casualty when
Vatican 2 was implemented. Many of their fine books had to be
rewritten to fit the new orientation on the Jews following
Vatican 2.
I wonder if anyone would remember the name of this
Religious Order.
This order was founded and staffed by Jєωιѕн Converts.
Congregation of Our Lady of Sion ( Fr. Marie-Alphonse Ratisbonne) http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/c021rpRatisbonne02.html
Thank you Bowler. Why would anyone thumb you down on this.
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Indeed. It is a very good example. Quite surprising someone does not like this. At least they should explain why?
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
I still think Judaism is a race. There has to be some people today who are descendants of the tribes of Israel. Those people I would say are Jews by race. Then there are converts after that.
Do you believe those people can be saved if they convert?
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No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
Uh no Judaism is not just a "religion."
It is a race. It is a group of people that are ethnically the same.
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No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
Uh no Judaism is not just a "religion."
It is a race. It is a group of people that are ethnically the same.
So if they convert, do you think they are Catholic? It would seem a bit contradictory to call them "Catholic Jews".
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Do you think there might be Jews out there that fall into the category of Baptism of Desire thus giving them a chance for Salvation? I imagine if there are then there would be few of them. Even if there are I still think we should deport them to Israel for the sake of Christianity. What do you think?
1) No Father of the Church or saint ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit faith in a God that rewards
2) No Father of the Church ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit baptism of desire.
3) I can't even remember now what one Father of the Church taught that a catechumen with explicit desire to be baptized could be saved. And please don't say it was St. Ambrose or St. Augustine.
4) Some Fathers did teach baptism of blood, but I never heard of any examples of BOB martyrs in the last 1800 years (If there really ever were any. There is no way to know that they were not baptized)
“We have been taught that Christ is the first-begotten of God, and we have declared Him to be the Logos of which all mankind partakes (Jn. 1:9). Those, therefore, who lived according to reason [logos] were really Christians, even though they were thought to be atheists, such as, among the Greeks, Socrates, Heraclitus, and others like them . . . those who lived before Christ but did not live according to reason were wicked men, and enemies of Christ, and murderers of those who did live according to reason, whereas those who lived then or who live now according to reason are Christians. Such as these can be confident and unafraid” (Justin Martyr, First Apology 46).
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
I still think Judaism is a race. There has to be some people today who are descendants of the tribes of Israel. Those people I would say are Jews by race. Then there are converts after that.
Do you believe those people can be saved if they convert?
I'm not sure why you are asking that. We should all know that Jesus Christ came so that all of mankind could be saved. Why would I think Jews couldn't be? I will say that if they did want to convert then we should send them back to Israel and then they can convert there.
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Do you think there might be Jews out there that fall into the category of Baptism of Desire thus giving them a chance for Salvation? I imagine if there are then there would be few of them. Even if there are I still think we should deport them to Israel for the sake of Christianity. What do you think?
1) No Father of the Church or saint ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit faith in a God that rewards
2) No Father of the Church ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit baptism of desire.
3) I can't even remember now what one Father of the Church taught that a catechumen with explicit desire to be baptized could be saved. And please don't say it was St. Ambrose or St. Augustine.
4) Some Fathers did teach baptism of blood, but I never heard of any examples of BOB martyrs in the last 1800 years (If there really ever were any. There is no way to know that they were not baptized)
“We have been taught that Christ is the first-begotten of God, and we have declared Him to be the Logos of which all mankind partakes (Jn. 1:9). Those, therefore, who lived according to reason [logos] were really Christians, even though they were thought to be atheists, such as, among the Greeks, Socrates, Heraclitus, and others like them . . . those who lived before Christ but did not live according to reason were wicked men, and enemies of Christ, and murderers of those who did live according to reason, whereas those who lived then or who live now according to reason are Christians. Such as these can be confident and unafraid” (Justin Martyr, First Apology 46).
What is reason? He does not say. There's like hundreds of quotes from the Fathers teaching that all who die unbaptized are lost.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
There are, and have been throughout history, many Jews who converted to Catholicism for the sole purpose of mischief and the deliberate destruction of ancient texts and sources of historical connection. Jews, in following their religious beliefs, are under no obligation to be honest with non-Jews.
Queen Esther, for one, is a sacred figure in Jєωιѕн lore who pretended to not be a Jew so she could ingratiate herself to a powerful gentile and be of assistance to the Jєωιѕн people.
There's even Jacob, while in the employ of Laban, weasling his way through the stock of sheep procuring the best for himself by means of deception.
We are in search of the mythical "good Jew" and still looking.
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So if they convert, do you think they are Catholic? It would seem a bit contradictory to call them "Catholic Jews".
We have Catholics who are Germans, Mexicans, Polish, etc.
Those are all ethnicities, and being Jєωιѕн is also an ethnicity.
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Do you think there might be Jews out there that fall into the category of Baptism of Desire thus giving them a chance for Salvation? I imagine if there are then there would be few of them. Even if there are I still think we should deport them to Israel for the sake of Christianity. What do you think?
1) No Father of the Church or saint ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit faith in a God that rewards
2) No Father of the Church ever taught that a Pagan, Jew, Schismatic, or heretic could be saved by implicit baptism of desire.
3) I can't even remember now what one Father of the Church taught that a catechumen with explicit desire to be baptized could be saved. And please don't say it was St. Ambrose or St. Augustine.
4) Some Fathers did teach baptism of blood, but I never heard of any examples of BOB martyrs in the last 1800 years (If there really ever were any. There is no way to know that they were not baptized)
“We have been taught that Christ is the first-begotten of God, and we have declared Him to be the Logos of which all mankind partakes (Jn. 1:9). Those, therefore, who lived according to reason [logos] were really Christians, even though they were thought to be atheists, such as, among the Greeks, Socrates, Heraclitus, and others like them . . . those who lived before Christ but did not live according to reason were wicked men, and enemies of Christ, and murderers of those who did live according to reason, whereas those who lived then or who live now according to reason are Christians. Such as these can be confident and unafraid” (Justin Martyr, First Apology 46).
What is reason? He does not say. There's like hundreds of quotes from the Fathers teaching that all who die unbaptized are lost.
You know of any?
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
There are, and have been throughout history, many Jews who converted to Catholicism for the sole purpose of mischief and the deliberate destruction of ancient texts and sources of historical connection. Jews, in following their religious beliefs, are under no obligation to be honest with non-Jews.
Queen Esther, for one, is a sacred figure in Jєωιѕн lore who pretended to not be a Jew so she could ingratiate herself to a powerful gentile and be of assistance to the Jєωιѕн people.
There's even Jacob, while in the employ of Laban, weasling his way through the stock of sheep procuring the best for himself by means of deception.
We are in search of the mythical "good Jew" and still looking.
What do you think of cases such as Alphonse Ratisbone?Do you think that he was faking his conversion?
Or do all Jews fake their conversion? Should we treat all Jews who convert as Marranos until proven otherwise (although I am not sure how you could prove that)?
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
No, Judaism is a religion. Hence why you have American Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, etc.
I still think Judaism is a race. There has to be some people today who are descendants of the tribes of Israel. Those people I would say are Jews by race. Then there are converts after that.
Do you believe those people can be saved if they convert?
I'm not sure why you are asking that. We should all know that Jesus Christ came so that all of mankind could be saved. Why would I think Jews couldn't be? I will say that if they did want to convert then we should send them back to Israel and then they can convert there.
Israel?
Don't you mean occupied Palestine? The Israelis should recognize the independence of the free State of Palestine and stop butchering innocent civilians to impose their martial law and apartheid.
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Israel?
Don't you mean occupied Palestine? The Israelis should recognize the independence of the free State of Palestine and stop butchering innocent civilians to impose their martial law and apartheid.
Israel is obviously an apartheid state and Gaza is an Israeli cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ however we know who has the true power and that is the Jews.
By the way speaking of apartheid are you happy that a train bomber and terrorist like Mendela became a leader in South Africa?
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Israel?
Don't you mean occupied Palestine? The Israelis should recognize the independence of the free State of Palestine and stop butchering innocent civilians to impose their martial law and apartheid.
Israel is obviously an apartheid state and Gaza is an Israeli cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ however we know who has the true power and that is the Jews.
By the way speaking of apartheid are you happy that a train bomber and terrorist like Mendela became a leader in South Africa?
Mandela is a terrorist and should have spent the rest of his life in prison. A murderer should not be a head of state.
I also believe that the African nations should not have become independent until they were fully Catholic, which (barring the disaster of Vatican II) would have happened in due course. Probably the European nations should have stayed for another hundred years, perhaps longer. Then, there would have been the same good results that occurred in South and Central America (although the Americas would have been even better, had the Spanish stayed longer). The African nations could have become gradually independent as they developed a fully Catholic identity, and truly organic nations could have emerged, rather than the patchwork nations-in-name-only that the European modernists left behind.
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What about Jews who convert to the Catholic Faith?
They are no longer Jews, then.
But isn't there a blood and ethnicity component to being Jєωιѕн? I was wondering because I know some people who are Catholics that used to be Jews and I was curious as to whether they would still be considered Jєωιѕн or not.
Galatians 3:26-29
For you are all the children of God by faith, in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you be Christ's, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.
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Do you think there might be Jews out there that fall into the category of Baptism of Desire thus giving them a chance for Salvation? I imagine if there are then there would be few of them. Even if there are I still think we should deport them to Israel for the sake of Christianity. What do you think?
That is something known only to God. There are problably a lot more than we realize.
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Do you think there might be Jews out there that fall into the category of Baptism of Desire thus giving them a chance for Salvation? I imagine if there are then there would be few of them. Even if there are I still think we should deport them to Israel for the sake of Christianity. What do you think?
That is something known only to God. There are problably a lot more than we realize.
Huh?