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Author Topic: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"  (Read 30701 times)

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Offline Cantarella

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #175 on: August 22, 2018, 11:59:08 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 22, 2018, 11:15:52 AM
If you will say that the boy does not immediately lose membership upon attaining the age of reason, but only upon sufficient recognition and understanding of Catholicism, then you have just acknowledged that many (of all ages) who are members of false churches are actually joined to (and therefore saved by) the Catholic Church.

And that is precisely the argument I am making (and by extension, the same argument ABL was making).

And Vatican II did also!

Well, if this is so, then there is absolutely no heresy to be found in Vatican II Council and therefore, all Traditionalists who are in not in communion with Rome are in danger of perishing.

So for these people, an Orthodox (Or even a nonbaptized Jew, Moslem, or Hindu) can still be an invisible member of the Church; but a "Feeneyite" is for sure a heretic outside the Church...a non member...   :jester:
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #176 on: August 22, 2018, 12:03:41 PM »
Quote from: Cantarella on August 22, 2018, 11:59:08 AM
Well, then there is absolutely no heresy to be found in Vatican II Council and therefore, all Traditionalists who are in not in communion with Rome are in danger of perishing.

Indeed, Cantarella.  JohnSeanson just described the Vatican II definition of Church in a nutshell.  Since anyone who is saved must by definition be within the Church, all these non-Catholics are actually within the Church.  So we now have a Church that consists not only of Catholics proper, but also of all manner of heretics, schismatics, and infidels ... who while formally belonging to the Church have varying degrees of material separation from the fullness of truth that is held by Catholics in whom the Church subsists.  V2 in a nutshell.
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Offline Cantarella

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #177 on: August 22, 2018, 12:13:29 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on August 22, 2018, 12:03:41 PM
Indeed, Cantarella.  JohnSeanson just described the Vatican II definition of Church in a nutshell.  Since anyone who is saved must by definition be within the Church, all these non-Catholics are actually within the Church.  So we now have a Church that consists not only of Catholics proper, but also of all manner of heretics, schismatics, and infidels ... who while formally belonging to the Church have varying degrees of material separation from the fullness of truth that is held by Catholics in whom the Church subsists.  V2 in a nutshell.

It gets even sadder for these trads. They actually take it further than Vatican II ever did.

At least when Vatican II was applying varying degrees of communion to other sects in which the Church "subsists" and all that, it was referring to the other "CHRISTIAN" communities. (Meaning they are already waterly BAPTIZED and have Faith in Christ and the Holy Trinity, and some even have valid sacraments)
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #178 on: August 22, 2018, 12:19:32 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on August 22, 2018, 11:55:20 AM
When people apply "BoD" to even baptized individuals, that tells you all you need to know.  They do not believe in the traditional scholastic BoD but are using the term in lieu of the Pelagian "sincerity saves" heresy.  Instead of believing in one "church of the faithful" outside which no one can be saved, as of the Church dogmatic definitions, they substitute instead the one "church of the sincere".
Can I just say that I had NEVER heard of applying BoD to baptized individuals before this thread.  It's a head-scratcher for sure.
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Offline Cantarella

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #179 on: August 22, 2018, 12:23:02 PM »
Have you ever even heard that there are THREE baptisms in Catholic theology?

That statement right there is a heresy.

Even if you believe that desire and blood can substitute the tangible water in martyrs and dying catechumens, you must confess that there is only ONE Baptism for the remission of sins.

"I confess one baptism for the remission of sins" Says the dogmatic Nicene Creed. This dogma that there is one baptism for the remission of sins comes from Our Lord Himself and the Apostles. It is affirmed by St. Paul in Ephesians 4:5:

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism.”
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