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Author Topic: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"  (Read 30639 times)

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Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #210 on: August 22, 2018, 05:53:46 PM »
Quote from: Karl Rahner, Was ist Häresie, 1961
Noch ein Franz Xaver hat den Japanern, die er bekehren wollte, gesagt, daß selbstverstandlich alle ihre Vorfahren zur Hölle verdammt sind. Und auch ein Augustinus hätte nach seiner Theologie so antworten müssen, und diese Haltung gehörte doch bis fast auf unsere Tage zum Grundpathos der christlichen Missionsarbeit unter den Heiden.

Quote from: Clumsy translation of Karl Rahner, What is heresy, 1961
Francis Xavier would tell the Japanese, which  he wanted to convert, that their ancestors as a matter of course are damned to hell. Also, an Augustine, following his theology, would have had to answer in the same manner, and this attitude belonged up to almost our days to the basic pathos of christian missionary work in midst of the pagans.

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #211 on: August 22, 2018, 06:09:10 PM »
Quote from: Joseph Ratzinger, Interview, 2016
Se è vero che i grandi missionari del XVI secolo erano ancora convinti che chi non è battezzato è per sempre perduto, e ciò spiega il loro impegno missionario, nella Chiesa cattolica dopo il Concilio Vaticano II tale convinzione è stata definitivamente abbandonata. Da ciò derivò una doppia profonda crisi. [...]

Se c’è chi si può salvare anche in altre maniere non è più evidente, alla fin fine, perché il cristiano stesso sia legato alle esigenze dalla fede cristiana e alla sua morale. [...]


Quote from: Clumsy translation
While it is true that the great missionaries of the sixteenth century still were convinced, that those, who are not baptized, are lost forever, and that this explains their missionary commitment, this conviction was finally abandoned in the Catholic Church after the Second Vatican Council. From this a deep double crisis arose. [...]

If one can be saved in a different way, it is no more evident, why a Christian should be bound to the necessity of the christian faith and morals. [...]

Intervista al papa emerito Joseph Ratzinger-Benedetto XVI


Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #212 on: August 22, 2018, 07:12:42 PM »
Trent does not distinguish between explicit or implicit baptism of desire.

That is because Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire.

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #213 on: August 22, 2018, 07:33:44 PM »

My response that that implicit baptism pertains to souls who never had a chance to accept or deny the faith was in response to the assertion that such had denied the faith.

In other words, they are no different from the ones described as "anonymous Christians" by chief VII theologian, Rahner:

Quote
The pagan after the beginning of the Christian mission, who lives in the state of Christ’s grace through faith, hope and love, yet who has no explicit knowledge of the fact that his life is orientated in grace-given salvation to Christ.

And notice it is the "implicit" nature of these acts of Faith, Hope, and Charity, which distinguishes “anonymous Christians” from the visible Christians VII Council was referring to in Lumen Gentium.

So not only the OP thinks that a single belief in just one, really any one, article of the true religion, suffices for salvation, but this belief can also be "implicit" so at the end, anyone in a false religion can be said to be an invisible Catholic, belonging to an invisible Church.  






Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #214 on: August 23, 2018, 08:27:25 AM »
That is because Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire.

Even if one were to argue that Trent allows for a Baptism of Desire, it quite clearly only pertains to those who have the dispositions for Baptism as described in the Treatise on Justification, i.e. basically to catechumens only.