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Author Topic: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"  (Read 30655 times)

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Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #200 on: August 22, 2018, 04:23:13 PM »
This is a denial of what Trent teaches.  

You have demonstrated repeatedly that you really have no idea what Trent teaches (similar to the way in which a Feeneyite has no idea what John 3:5 teaches).

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #201 on: August 22, 2018, 04:29:51 PM »
Trent does not make ANY exceptions for those ignorant of the Faith.  No one can be ignorant of the natural law, but they can be ignorant of the Faith...but this does not excuse them from the obligation to be a member of the Church.

Those who follow the natural law will be given the grace to hear the Truths of the Faith.  As Scripture says: “God wills that all men be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth.”

Most do not follow the natural law, so God does not give them an opportunity to hear the Faith because it is casting “pearls before swine”.  As St Luke explains:  

He that is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in that which is greater: and he that is unjust in that which is little, is unjust also in that which is greater.  (Luke 16:10)

Further, as Trent teaches, no one is able to have the grace to accept the Truth, unless he is inspired by the Holy Spirit and properly disposed.  So, the idea that one in sin (ie all those unbaptized) can make an “act of supernatural faith” is anti-Trent.  One in sin can’t do ANYTHING supernatural, which requires grace.


Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #202 on: August 22, 2018, 04:34:48 PM »
Trent does not make ANY exceptions for those ignorant of the Faith.  No one can be ignorant of the natural law, but they can be ignorant of the Faith...but this does not excuse them from the obligation to be a member of the Church.

Those who follow the natural law will be given the grace to hear the Truths of the Faith.  As Scripture says: “God wills that all men be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth.”

Most do not follow the natural law, so God does not give them an opportunity to hear the Faith because it is casting “pearls before swine”.  As St Luke explains:  

He that is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in that which is greater: and he that is unjust in that which is little, is unjust also in that which is greater.  (Luke 16:10)

However, as Trent teaches, no one is able to have the grace to accept the Truth, unless he is inspired by the Holy Spirit and properly disposed.  So, the idea that one in sin (ie all those unbaptized) can make an “act of supernatural faith” is anti-Trent.  One in sin can’t do ANYTHING supernatural, which requires grace.  

Trent does not distinguish between explicit or implicit baptism of desire.

Since both were commonly taught both before and after the council, the presumption is that Trent codified both as an article of faith.

And the presumption is transformed into a certainty by recalling that not only have Doctors of the Church so interpreted that council, but the infallible universal ordinary magisterium has taught thusly without contradiction ever after.

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #203 on: August 22, 2018, 04:43:55 PM »
As we are now running over the same old ground, I leave this thread exactly where I first broached the subject a week ago:

Feeneyite’s (and sedes) suffer from a peculiar Anglo narrowness of mind, which tends to make them play off one doctrine against another, rather than a broadmindedness which would enable them to integrate doctrine by nuance, distinction, and context (all of which arouse in them the suspicion of compromise and contradiction so prominently displayed in this/these threads).

But there is no way around it:

Either I and the entire universal ordinary magisterium since Trent have a better grasp of what that council really taught, or Fr Feeney was the greatest Catholic in the history of the Church, and there has been a sede vacante/interregnum for hundreds of years.

Pax.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #204 on: August 22, 2018, 04:59:21 PM »
The problem is that you erroneously interpret implicit desire contrary to Trent.  Go re-read the entire Session 6.  I'll post part of Chapter VI below:

http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch6.htm
CHAPTER VI. The manner of Preparation.

Now they (adults) are disposed unto the said justice, when, excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing, they are freely moved towards God, believing those things to be true which God has revealed and promised (Incarnation, Original Sin, Trinity, Redemption...not just one of these, but ALL OF THEM),

-and this especially, that God justifies the impious by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves, from the fear of divine justice whereby they are profitably agitated, to consider the mercy of God, are raised unto hope, confiding that God will be propitious to them for Christ's sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice; and are therefore moved against sins by a certain hatred and detestation, to wit, by that penitence which must be performed before baptism: (So penitence MUST be part of this implicit desire for the Faith.  A generalized "belief in God" or a desire to "do what God wants" is not sufficient.)

 lastly, when they purpose to receive baptism, to begin a new life, and to keep the commandments of God.  (The desire for Baptism can be implicit, in the sense that it is "implied" by actions and not VERBALLY expressed, but that does not mean that the desire is unexpressed, for Trent says that one must purpose/decide to receive baptism, to begin a new life (i.e. turn from sin) and keep the commandments.  This means that the person, in his heart, must WILL that baptism be received, even if he does not explicity tell anyone else, though by his actions, it is implied what he wants (i.e. he takes catechism classes).