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Author Topic: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"  (Read 30689 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #180 on: August 22, 2018, 01:18:40 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on August 22, 2018, 12:03:41 PM
Indeed, Cantarella.  JohnSeanson just described the Vatican II definition of Church in a nutshell.  Since anyone who is saved must by definition be within the Church, all these non-Catholics are actually within the Church.  So we now have a Church that consists not only of Catholics proper, but also of all manner of heretics, schismatics, and infidels ... who while formally belonging to the Church have varying degrees of material separation from the fullness of truth that is held by Catholics in whom the Church subsists.  V2 in a nutshell.

Au contraire:

V2 speaks of false churches “subsisting” in the true Church.

That is heretical.

What implicit baptism of desire pertains to is INDIVIDUALS joined to the true Church (without being members of it) by sanctifying grace, and therefore saved.
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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #181 on: August 22, 2018, 01:34:26 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 22, 2018, 01:18:40 PM
What implicit baptism of desire pertains to is INDIVIDUALS joined to the true Church (without being members of it) by sanctifying grace, and therefore saved.
I find it amazing that any Catholic could possibly believe that there even are ANY individuals who refused to become members of the true Church whilst they lived, but believe it a (dogmatic) teaching of the Church that these same individuals, via some good intention, joined it anyway moments from their dying breath - and on that account were saved.

What ever happened to "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

The idea that man can save himself is a heresy - no?
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #182 on: August 22, 2018, 02:00:38 PM »
Quote
What implicit baptism of desire pertains to is INDIVIDUALS joined to the true Church (without being members of it) by sanctifying grace, and therefore saved.
This could only apply to formal catechumens, as Trent describes clearly.  Basically, the only people who are "joined" to the church without being members are those whose membership is "pending" because they ACTED to reject their errors, learn about the Faith and desire it.

No one is joined to the Church who is still part of a non-catholic religion.  Certainly not one who is altogether ignorant of Her.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #183 on: August 22, 2018, 02:07:59 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on August 20, 2018, 11:29:29 AM
You keep repeating "explicit act of supernatural faith" but you've never explained what actually qualifies.
Was this question ever answered in this thread?  Perhaps it was and I missed it?
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Is BOD Merely a "Disputed Issue?"
« Reply #184 on: August 22, 2018, 02:12:29 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on August 22, 2018, 01:34:26 PM
I find it amazing that any Catholic could possibly believe that there even are ANY individuals who refused to become members of the true Church whilst they lived, but believe it a (dogmatic) teaching of the Church that these same individuals, via some good intention, joined it anyway moments from their dying breath - and on that account were saved.

What ever happened to "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

The idea that man can save himself is a heresy - no?

They didn’t “refuse to become” Catholics.

They never had the CHANCE to become Catholics.
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