Author Topic: Implicit Faith - Defying the Law of Non-contradiction at Every Turn (Read 37421 times)

nadieimportante · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2012, 08:51:46 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

So let's this get straight:

The Feeneyites believe that all the theologians who have held to Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood are incapable of understanding the principle of non-contradiction and basic logic.

That is of course an absurd position. It seems to me the Feeneyites have a problem with basic reading comprehension. They cite certain texts and councils and then claim all the other theologians who could read them and understand them didn't understand what they understand. Not only that, but that the Church could not censor these theologians.

It's a patently absurd position.

And so your circle returns back to where it started, you believe what you believe because the theologians contradictory opinions are "tolerated".

There is no denying that those that are not baptized are not part of the Body, nor under the jurisdiction of the pope, if they were, the theologians would not have to go throught their mental gymnastics of explaining how they are "not in the ark of salvation, but are hanging on to a life rope in the water", and all the other such fallible explanations. Catholics are not bound, and in fact must reject, the fallible statements and speculations of men, however great, when they are not in harmony with Catholic dogma, not to mention when they contradict the very principles they elsewhere affirm.

We are talking here of a direct contradiction of infallible clear dogmas!

Augustinian · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:25:46 AM »

Dogmas shmogmas! Nobody believes in dogmas anymore. Especially not when they're spelled out loud and clear. Besides, the speculations of theologians are so much more comfortable and palatable to sentimental appetites.

Augustinian · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:28:11 AM »

Pope St. Gregory the Great: "We can no more pray for a deceased infidel than we can for the devil, since they are condemned to the same eternal and irrevocable damnation."

St. Fulgence: "Hold most firmly and never doubt that not only all pagans but also all Jews and all heretics and schismatics who finish this present life outside the Catholic Church will go into eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels."

St. Athanasius: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity...This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved."

On the other hand...

Joseph Clifford Fenton: "A person invincibly ignorant of the true religion can attain eternal salvation."

Leonard Goffine: "The Catholic Church does not condemn the unbelievers, she prays for them, leaves judgment to the Lord, who alone knows the heart..."

Francis Sullivan: "The medieval Christian does not seem to have been capable of understanding how Jews, for instance, living in the midst of Christendom, could fail to recognize the truth of the Christian religion... These limits of the geographical and psychological horizons of medieval Christians are historical factors which profoundly conditioned their expression of the doctrine of the necessity of the church for salvation. The atrocious formulation of this doctrine, which the Council of Florence incorporated into its Decree for the Jacobites, can be understood only if one takes into consideration the cultural factors which conditioned medieval Christians to think that all those outside the church must be guilty of grave sin, and hence that God would justly condemn them all to hell."

Which set of quotes seems more conformable to the dogmatic teachings of the Church?

Augustinian · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:37:04 AM »

Council of Trent, Session 5: "That our Catholic faith, without which it is impossible to please God..."

Vatican Council, Session 3: "Since, then, without faith it is impossible to please God and reach the fellowship of his sons and daughters, it follows that no one can ever achieve justification without it, neither can anyone attain eternal life unless he or she perseveres in it to the end."

Without the Catholic faith, it is impossible to please God. Pagans do not have the Catholic faith. Jews do not have the Catholic faith. Muslims do not have the Catholic faith. Buddhists do not have the Catholic faith. Protestants do not have the Catholic faith. Greeks do not have the Catholic faith. All other heretics do not have the Catholic faith. Therefore Pagans, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Protestants, Greeks, and all other heretics please not God. Who then would dare say they could be saved?

Council of Trent, Session 6: "And whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith and freely, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons."

That's not Feeneyism. That's Catholicism. People like Telesphorus are the descendants of modernists like Francis Sullivan who never accepted the Church's teaching on salvation, and made up excuses to deny it.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2012, 11:40:44 AM »

In a desire to placate fashions of tolerance and other revolutionary ideas like the equality of all religions, some theologians have acceded to these things in an effort to conform not to the Catholic Faith of all ages, but the spirit of the times which will one day pass away, leaving behind the Faith without which it is impossible to please God.