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Author Topic: Implicit BOD  (Read 18856 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Implicit BOD
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2020, 03:09:09 PM »
I would like to discuss this now.

I have never heard anyone other than a Feeneyite assert Aquinas erred here.

But as I understand the Feeneyite mind:

1) Lefebvre was a modernist for allegedly teaching implicit faith;

2) St. Thomas likewise was a modernist teaching implicit faith;

3) All the post-Tridentine theologians are modernists for preaching implicit faith;

4) St. Alphonsus was a mushhead, and not knowing what Trent taught, maintained an heretical position condemned by Trent;

5) The popes who declared anyone might follow the teachings of St. Alphonsus were modernists for leading people into Alphonsus's errors;

6) All these are wrong, and the Feeneyites are right.

Does that more or less sum it up?
Will you say that St. Alphonsus is a feeneyite heretic?

From:  (An Exposition and Defence of All the Points of Faith Discussed and Defined by the Sacred Council of Trent, Along With the Refutation of the Errors of the Pretended Reformers, Saint Alphonsus Liguori, Dublin, 1846.)

"The heretics say that no sacrament is necessary, inasmuch as they hold that man is justified by faith alone, and that the sacraments only serve to excite and nourish this faith, which (as they say) can be equally excited and nourished by preaching.  But this is certainly false, and is condemned in the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth canons:  for as we know from the Scriptures, some of the sacraments are necessary (necessitate Medii) as a means without which salvation is impossible. Thus Baptism is necessary for all, Penance for them who have fallen into sin after Baptism, and the Eucharist is necessary for all at least in desire ( in voto)."

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Implicit BOD
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2020, 03:14:15 PM »
St. Thomas Aquinas:

"If, however, some were saved without receiving any revelation, they were not saved without faith in a Mediator, for, though they did not believe in Him explicitly, they did, nevertheless, have implicit faith through believing in Divine providence, since they believed that God would deliver mankind in whatever way was pleasing to Him, and according to the revelation of the Spirit to those who knew the truth, as stated in Job 35:11: “Who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth.”

STh II-II q. 2 a. 7 ad 3

Right, but he's speaking about the OT economy of salvation.  He clearly teaches that explicit faith in at least the Holy Trinity and Incarnation are necessary for salvation "since the promulgation of the Gospel" (i.e. in NT times).


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Implicit BOD
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2020, 03:18:06 PM »
I would like to discuss this now.

I have never heard anyone other than a Feeneyite assert Aquinas erred here.

I just replied to the quote, which is in reference to the OT economy of salvation.  To correct the previous phrase, St. Thomas used the phrase "once grace had been revealed" not the "Gospel promulgated" as I wrote earlier.

Re: Implicit BOD
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2020, 03:28:10 PM »
Will you say that St. Alphonsus is a feeneyite heretic?

From:  (An Exposition and Defence of All the Points of Faith Discussed and Defined by the Sacred Council of Trent, Along With the Refutation of the Errors of the Pretended Reformers, Saint Alphonsus Liguori, Dublin, 1846.)

"The heretics say that no sacrament is necessary, inasmuch as they hold that man is justified by faith alone, and that the sacraments only serve to excite and nourish this faith, which (as they say) can be equally excited and nourished by preaching.  But this is certainly false, and is condemned in the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth canons:  for as we know from the Scriptures, some of the sacraments are necessary (necessitate Medii) as a means without which salvation is impossible. Thus Baptism is necessary for all, Penance for them who have fallen into sin after Baptism, and the Eucharist is necessary for all at least in desire ( in voto)."
He's responding to the Protestant heresy of Justification By Faith Alone here; he's not saying that Baptism cannot be received in voto, and he explicitly teaches that it can elsewhere.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Implicit BOD
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2020, 03:44:03 PM »
He's responding to the Protestant heresy of Justification By Faith Alone here; he's not saying that Baptism cannot be received in voto, and he explicitly teaches that it can elsewhere.
What is a BOD if not justification by faith alone? He starts out saying that "The heretics say that no sacrament is necessary" - a BOD is not a sacrament. Saying that a BOD suffices is to say no sacrament is necessary. Where am I misquoting him? The only sacrament he allows the desire for, is (spiritual) communion.