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Author Topic: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?  (Read 913 times)

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Offline bodeens

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  • I would like to hear a convincing argument that he would have been given no Cushing. IMO this is the most productive discussion that will move the ball down the field at this point. It would seem Cushing's personal entanglements were entirely at fault here?
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #1 on: July 05, 2021, 05:33:20 AM »
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  • +Cushing was the fox in charge of the hen house, who knows how many other Cushings there were at that time - in my opinion, there were many because all other bishops and cardinals were silent and let Fr. Feeney go to the slaughter.

    Here is a link I made a long time ago showing some things +Cushing is known for - nobody in the hierarchy ever said or did anything about it......which leads to the conclusion that either they were all in on it, or you tell me why he was not only never censured by anyone, he was promoted to Cardinal.

     

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #2 on: July 05, 2021, 05:35:59 AM »
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  • I guess it depends on what you mean by moving the discussion forward.

    I don't believe Feeney was a heretic, and yet I agree with Lefebvre and not Feeney.

    I don't automatically jump down everyone's throat if I disagree with them.  Doesn't mean Fr. Feeney was 100% right on this issue.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #3 on: July 05, 2021, 06:36:41 AM »
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  • Cushing was the heretic who was working outside the Church with elite non Catholics.  Cushing own sister married outside the Church.  And his peers were sodomites.  Who knows? Maybe he was one.  It’s mainly sodomites in Church pushing interfaith with false pagan religions and devil worshippers. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #4 on: July 05, 2021, 07:25:00 AM »
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  • I guess it depends on what you mean by moving the discussion forward.

    I don't believe Feeney was a heretic, and yet I agree with Lefebvre and not Feeney.

    I don't automatically jump down everyone's throat if I disagree with them.  Doesn't mean Fr. Feeney was 100% right on this issue.
    "The strangest feature of this case is not, as might be commonly supposed, that some Boston Catholics were
    holding heresy and were being rebuked by their legitimate superiors. It is, rather, that these same Catholics
    were accusing their ecclesiastical superiors and academic mentors of teaching heresy, and as thanks for
    having been so solicitous were immediately suppressed by these same authorities on the score of being
    intolerant and bigoted. If history takes any note of this large incident (in what is often called the most
    Catholic city in the United States) it may interest historians to note that those who were punished were never
    accused of holding heresy, but only of being intolerant, unbroadminded and disobedient. It is also to be
    noted that the same authorities have never gone to the slightest trouble to point out wherein the accusation
    made against them by the “Boston group” is unfounded. In a heresy case usually a subject is being punished
    by his superior for denying a doctrine of his church. In this heresy case a subject of the Church is being
    punished by his superior for professing a defined doctrine." - The Loyolas and the Cabots (PDF attached)
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Tradman

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #5 on: July 05, 2021, 07:49:42 AM »
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  • "The strangest feature of this case is not, as might be commonly supposed, that some Boston Catholics were
    holding heresy and were being rebuked by their legitimate superiors. It is, rather, that these same Catholics
    were accusing their ecclesiastical superiors and academic mentors of teaching heresy, and as thanks for
    having been so solicitous were immediately suppressed by these same authorities on the score of being
    intolerant and bigoted. If history takes any note of this large incident (in what is often called the most
    Catholic city in the United States) it may interest historians to note that those who were punished were never
    accused of holding heresy, but only of being intolerant, unbroadminded and disobedient. It is also to be
    noted that the same authorities have never gone to the slightest trouble to point out wherein the accusation
    made against them by the “Boston group” is unfounded. In a heresy case usually a subject is being punished
    by his superior for denying a doctrine of his church. In this heresy case a subject of the Church is being
    punished by his superior for professing a defined doctrine." - The Loyolas and the Cabots (PDF attached)
    So well said.  This shows that the promoters of error don't care to address a single variant of BOD, or salvation outside the Church, because any opinion is just fine, except the actual words of the Church as written, in which case, said person who believes the teachings mean what they say, is to be punished, excoriated, rebuked, publicly derided, excommunicated, even killed, until they cease and desist and believe anything else: from one person in history goes to heaven without baptism, to all men are saved.  Just don't believe the Church and baptism really are necessary.         

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #6 on: July 05, 2021, 08:31:34 AM »
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  • Father Feeney, from "The Point": (1954)

    "Liberace, a manicured piano player in grey silk suit, who arrived at Boston’s Hotel Statler, headquarters of the convention,





    and promptly received a phone-call from Boston’s Archbishop Cushing. Would Liberace please play for the ladies of the convention, asked the Archbishop? No, said Liberace. Well, then, said the Archbishop, could Liberace pay a visit to the Archi-episcopal residence some time during his Boston stay? Yes, said the piano-player. Newsmen received ample warning of the proposed visit and were plentifully on hand when the Archbishop put his arm around Liberace’s shoulder and called him an “exemplary Catholic"."

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #7 on: July 05, 2021, 10:17:17 AM »
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  • I would like to hear a convincing argument that he would have been given no Cushing. IMO this is the most productive discussion that will move the ball down the field at this point. It would seem Cushing's personal entanglements were entirely at fault here?
    How can the OP be productive if it can't even be understood?  "I would like to hear a convincing argument that he would have been given no Cushing. "
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Marion

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #8 on: July 05, 2021, 10:25:18 AM »
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  • How can the OP be productive if it can't even be understood?  "I would like to hear a convincing argument that he would have been given no Cushing. "
    The OP is referring to the title of the thread.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline dymphnaw

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #9 on: July 05, 2021, 10:26:46 AM »
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  • Cushing's personal sins and his feelings for his sister and Jєωιѕн brother-in-law and his personal animus towards Feeney made him  major adversary but when Fr. Feeney's Jesuit superior told him to move and he refused that really was the end for him. 

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #10 on: July 05, 2021, 11:18:21 AM »
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  • Who were the Bishop and Cardinal who suppressed Father Coughlin ?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline bodeens

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    Re: If Cushing WASN'T Feeney's superior would he have been exed?
    « Reply #11 on: July 05, 2021, 11:58:29 AM »
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  • I guess it depends on what you mean by moving the discussion forward.

    I don't believe Feeney was a heretic, and yet I agree with Lefebvre and not Feeney.

    I don't automatically jump down everyone's throat if I disagree with them.  Doesn't mean Fr. Feeney was 100% right on this issue.
    This is why I'm not as interested in the main debate because pretty much all viable permutations of it have been discussed to death. This approach orthogonally approaches the matter. I'm guessing there is a sizable amount of people that hold some stripe of what you're saying, a lot of them are silent (IRL especially given the situation around BoD/EENS in a lot of chapels).

    This is probably not your position but I'm going to throw it out there and say a lot of RnR types hold that both Cushing and Feeney were heretics but the only reason RnRs would call Feeney a heretic in the first place is because the hierarchy said so. This obviously presents a problem. I don't think anyone genuinely holds that Cushing was hyper orthodox (or even remotely) so it's not as productive to think about people who would immediately submit to Cushing if this same decision was made today. The case of Feeney today would look considerably different because of social media etc and a larger spotlight on clerical corruption. I think part of the reason this case is given a free pass to the hierarchy is because of the time it happened or else FSSP/diocesan TLM boomers would be watching Taylor Marshall vids on this right now.

    Where's Xavier? We need some voices that do not agree in this thread to present some real arguments.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.