You don't have to get ALL of your answers on Catholicism from sedes.

Why not? I am starting to loose patience with SSPXers. How many times do they have to see and hear the arguments before they realize their position is not catholic and unacceptable?

Go see a priest. Any priest- sede, sspx, CMRI- just see one. You need it man.

Why? They all believe in NFP, BOD, & Invincible ignorance.

These young men are being cut down in rows.  At this point it's almost like a rite of passage to go through a Feeneyite or semi-Feeneyite phase, but for many it's not a phase.

Serious Catholics tend to be intelligent; intelligent people tend to be susceptible to intellectual pride.  It has always been this way, but today, there is no Pope, and the even bigger problem is a lack of interest in the spiritual life, in learning humility, obedience, in overcoming self.  

I understand cc23 quite well, I had a problem with SSPX priests because of their junk theology; so I felt superior there.  Then CMRI has that kind of neo-con thing going on that made me paranoid about them.  While political affiliation has nothing to do with dogma, I came to religion from the conspiracy-theory angle, and I was really thrown off by the idea of people of the faith supporting the likes of George Bush Jr. and Sarah Palin ( still am, to be honest ).  I felt like I had no one I could trust.

CC23 needs prayers, first of all.  But I will say, and I have heard this from someone else, probably the easiest and quickest way to get over this intellectual pride, is to read books about saints.  I say ABOUT saints, not BY saints; books BY saints comes later, when you are already on the road to perfection, then you can crack St. Theresa of Avila or what have you.  But when you read books ABOUT saints, it gives you a pattern of behavior, you see how a holy man should speak and behave and think.   The next step after that:  The consecration to Mary.  The next step after that... I don't know yet.

BOD lead to Invincible Ignorance which lead to Religious Liberty.

If someone says a great thumb worshiper could be saved through invincible ignorance, you are basically saying the great thumb religion is a means of salvation. If it is a means of salvation, why should someone not be allowed to worship it? Why should the government not infringe on his RIGHT to worship the great thumb?

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

BOD lead to Invincible Ignorance which lead to Religious Liberty.

Quote

Horsepoop. Who here who believes in BOD believes in Religious Liberty. That's what you call a slippery slope.

If someone says a great thumb worshiper could be saved through invincible ignorance, you are basically saying the great thumb religion is a means of salvation. If it is a means of salvation, why should someone not be allowed to worship it? Why should the government not infringe on his RIGHT to worship the great thumb?

That was stupid. You really show your ignorance for the matter. Go check out some of the multitude of threads on this forum for why.

Bad will.

CC23 said:  

If someone says a great thumb worshiper could be saved through invincible ignorance, you are basically saying the great thumb religion is a means of salvation. If it is a means of salvation, why should someone not be allowed to worship it? Why should the government not infringe on his RIGHT to worship the great thumb?

Hey, I think it's wrong to say that we can be saved by baptism alone.  Someone who dies right after being baptized, and is saved, doesn't even do any good works!  So the idea that baptism alone saves people is contrary to good works, it's like saying you can be saved while doing nothing for God.   This is a sin against charity.  Therefore I believe babies, because they can't do good works, shouldn't be baptized until they are rational adults and can make their own decision if they want to be in God's service.  If they die before that happens, that is just too bad, God foresaw that they were going to turn into axe murderers in the future so He took them out before that could happen, so their spot in hell wouldn't be as bad.

A little reductio ad absurdum to show the Protestant lunacy you are on the verge of, or already are, espousing.

It's very simple CC23, God knows the heart, and He knows who would have accepted the Catholic religion if they had known about it, okay?  This may be ten billion people or it may be nobody.  Do you have to be God, do you have to know exactly who is going to be saved, or can you let Him handle it?  This is not saying that the Shaka Zulu religion is the means of salvation.  It is saying the Catholic Church is the means of salvation for someone who would have accepted it if he had known about it.  

Why would God have allowed someone to be in ignorance of the Catholic Church?  Well, why would He allow someone like St. John Vianney to rack up so many good works, and so many merits for himself, while other people maybe do one or two?  Maybe someone does nothing good all his life, then saves someone from drowning, losing his own life in the process.  If he died in the faith, he gets to go to the same heaven as St. Francis de Sales who converted thousands upon thousands.  He may not be as high up in heaven, he may not be a supreme courtier of Mary -- which, by the way, is my idea of a high place in heaven -- but he will still be there.  God apportions His grace how He will.

 

Bad will.

No, not bad will. Concern for your soul and being led away from truth.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

You don't have to get ALL of your answers on Catholicism from sedes.

Why not? I am starting to loose patience with SSPXers. How many times do they have to see and hear the arguments before they realize their position is not catholic and unacceptable?

Listen, some of my answers came from sedevacantists when I was still a fairly new Traditional Catholic. I wasn't a sede and was a staunch SSPXer, yet I didn't go around saying I'd only accept advice from SSPX priests. I've even learned alot from listening to sermons from FSSP priests even though I don't agree with the FSSP position. Just because you hold a certain position on the crisis in the Church doesn't mean you should completely avoid any priest or group that holds a different position on the crisis. If your spiritual life is in need of help, then you need to find a Traditional priest regardless of whether or not he is a sede. I think you'd benefit alot more from a Traditional priest than you would from listening to everything the Dimond Brothers have to say.