Author Topic: Good Catholics, I need your help and prayers (Read 2579 times)

Jim · « **on:** November 28, 2011, 12:46:57 AM »

I need true instruction, advice, and prayers. This question of whether the Dimond brothers, the Feeneyites, etc are correct or whether the other side is has been boggling my mind, just as sedevacantism did before.

I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

Please dear friends, can anyone help me. Especially when it comes to implicit faith and invincible ignorance.

I am feeling tempted to embrace Feeneyism and home-aloneism. I do not feel that I can be judged a pertinacious heretic by anyone, since we are not in normal times, and I cannot write the Holy Office, Pius XII, etc and ask them personally this conflict in my mind.

Please, say any players you can for me, even though I don't do so often for others. Please my friends. Our Lady of Good Counsel, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2011, 01:04:35 AM »

Quote from: Jim

I need true instruction, advice, and prayers. This question of whether the Dimond brothers, the Feeneyites, etc are correct or whether the other side is has been boggling my mind, just as sedevacantism did before.

I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

Please dear friends, can anyone help me. Especially when it comes to implicit faith and invincible ignorance.

I am feeling tempted to embrace Feeneyism and home-aloneism. I do not feel that I can be judged a pertinacious heretic by anyone, since we are not in normal times, and I cannot write the Holy Office, Pius XII, etc and ask them personally this conflict in my mind.

Please, say any players you can for me, even though I don't do so often for others. Please my friends. Our Lady of Good Counsel, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

It's not something for a baptized Christian to worry about, unless you think all the saints who believed in Baptism of Desire are heretics. If that's the case, the Church has insoluble problems and has been leading people astray for centuries, if you believe that, why be Catholic?

Jim · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2011, 01:11:40 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Jim
I need true instruction, advice, and prayers. This question of whether the Dimond brothers, the Feeneyites, etc are correct or whether the other side is has been boggling my mind, just as sedevacantism did before.

I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

Please dear friends, can anyone help me. Especially when it comes to implicit faith and invincible ignorance.

I am feeling tempted to embrace Feeneyism and home-aloneism. I do not feel that I can be judged a pertinacious heretic by anyone, since we are not in normal times, and I cannot write the Holy Office, Pius XII, etc and ask them personally this conflict in my mind.

Please, say any players you can for me, even though I don't do so often for others. Please my friends. Our Lady of Good Counsel, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

It's not something for a baptized Christian to worry about, unless you think all the saints who believed in Baptism of Desire are heretics. If that's the case, the Church has insoluble problems and has been leading people astray for centuries, if you believe that, why be Catholic?

Thank you Tele. Why don't the Dimonds condemn Monsignor J. Fenton et al as you have said as heretics, yet in these times, when the see can very well be vacant for almost 60 years, people are condemned as heretics.

gunfighter · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2011, 07:39:06 AM »

My take is this, I can believe St. Thomas Aquinas or the Dimonds. I choose to believe St Thomas.

To answer your question about motive, it takes speculation. Throughout history, men have chosen to be heretics. I think most of the time it is pride. In the Dimonds case, I think it is pride and money. If they did not come up with a way to claim that they alone are Catholic, no one would listen to them or to give them money. For a reasonable person would align themselves with a priest that could administer the sacraments, rather than a couple of guys that have started a monestary.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2011, 10:19:30 AM »

Quote

I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

No they don't. They just have their Pharisee-like misinterpretation of dogma.

If a decree says "You must be baptized" that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. Imagine if you read everything literally, like in the Apocalypse where it says "murderers, adulterers, liars" and so on won't reach the kingdom of heaven. If you read that literally, then you're damned if you tell one lie, and can't be forgiven.

Being able to grasp the SPIRIT of the law is of the highest importance. That is why you have to trust real theologians and not amateurs which is what the Dimonds are, not to mention spiritually occluded. Can you imagine St. Thomas spitting constant venom and claiming everyone is a heretic, cartoonishly, like these guys? Why would you trust people who think that pretty much no one in the world except their one or two disciples will be saved? That is a personal cult, not the Catholic cult.

These guys are preying on scruples. Pray to a saint or to Mary to end your scruples. I am convinced if more people did the consecration to Mary of St. Louis de Montfort this would not be happening. We go about it all backwards, trying to work things out with our brains instead of through the light of faith and humility. Probably the greatest spiritual leap I've ever taken is since beginning this consecration. It fills you with a sense of your own unworthiness and from this perspective you get far sharper vision. God does not reveal his secrets to the proud; He abhors pride. That is why so many arrogant young bucks are going stone-blind. And though they may not think they're arrogant, they are, because there is almost zero emphasis put on prayer and true spiritual progress these days, on mysticism.

nadieimportante · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2011, 04:38:37 PM »

Quote from: Jim

I need true instruction, advice, and prayers. This question of whether the Dimond brothers, the Feeneyites, etc are correct or whether the other side is has been boggling my mind, just as sedevacantism did before.

I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

You are right, it is clearly spelled out, and they answer all the points brought up by the SSPX, Cekada, Griff, whoever. it's easy to defend their position because they have the truth on their side. HOWEVER, telling people that they should not go to chapels that don't believe in EENS as it is written, would mean that there is practically nowhere to go today, as pretty much everyone believes that anyone who is "good' can be saved outside of the Church.

I came from the opposite camp than you. I'm from Latin America, and we were always taught that all non-Catholics go to hell. So, when I start hearing all these undefined excuses like implicit faith and invincible ignorance, I was forced to study the matter.

There is a thread that I started on BOD entitled Dying by "Accident" before being baptized, and BOD?, which is going on right now, you are welcomed to join it. And don't sweat it, you don't need to be a "home aloner" to be a believer in EENS as it is written.

Quote

Please dear friends, can anyone help me. Especially when it comes to implicit faith and invincible ignorance.

If you were to believe in the theory of baptism of desire catechumen, that would be one thing, you'd have some support from tradition, BUT, implicit faith and invincible ignorance, are way off the chart. They have absolutely no support from any tradition, they are novelties, that lead to our present situation where Catholics believe that anyone can be saved outside of the Church.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2011, 04:58:10 PM »

Quote from: Jim

I need true instruction, advice, and prayers. This question of whether the Dimond brothers, the Feeneyites, etc are correct or whether the other side is has been boggling my mind, just as sedevacantism did before.

I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

Please dear friends, can anyone help me. Especially when it comes to implicit faith and invincible ignorance.

I am feeling tempted to embrace Feeneyism and home-aloneism. I do not feel that I can be judged a pertinacious heretic by anyone, since we are not in normal times, and I cannot write the Holy Office, Pius XII, etc and ask them personally this conflict in my mind.

Please, say any players you can for me, even though I don't do so often for others. Please my friends. Our Lady of Good Counsel, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Nadie-

You need to free your mind from the two Satanic snares of Sedevacantism and "No Salvation Without Water Baptism."

Come out of the manuals for a while and return to common sense.

If these people are right, the Church has been teaching error since the time of St. Peter.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:34:57 PM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Quote from: Jim
I need true instruction, advice, and prayers. This question of whether the Dimond brothers, the Feeneyites, etc are correct or whether the other side is has been boggling my mind, just as sedevacantism did before.

I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

Please dear friends, can anyone help me. Especially when it comes to implicit faith and invincible ignorance.

I am feeling tempted to embrace Feeneyism and home-aloneism. I do not feel that I can be judged a pertinacious heretic by anyone, since we are not in normal times, and I cannot write the Holy Office, Pius XII, etc and ask them personally this conflict in my mind.

Please, say any players you can for me, even though I don't do so often for others. Please my friends. Our Lady of Good Counsel, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Nadie-

You need to free your mind from the two Satanic snares of Sedevacantism and "No Salvation Without Water Baptism."

Come out of the manuals for a while and return to common sense.

If these people are right, the Church has been teaching error since the time of St. Peter.

Correction-

I should have addressed this to Jim, not Nadie.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:37:30 PM »

Sedevacantism is a satanic snare?

I think adhering to a false Pope would be more of a snare than that.

And trying convince oneself that it's possible to adhere and resist at the same time is a delusion.

Emerentiana · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:38:13 PM »

Listen Seraphim! ALL of the trad groups, including the SSPX, all believe in baptism of desire and water. The sedes are not to blame for this.
I wouldnt classify the Diamond brother heretics in the same category as the trad priests and bishops.
/
The longer this inter regnum lasts, the more confusion there will be!

God has not left his church, but has at present provided us with priests to say mass and to give us the sacraments.
Try and look at things simply. We will soon be in the catacombs with no priests to say mass, as they will be hunted and killed by the NWO.
Then we can be home aloners.

nadieimportante · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:47:26 PM »

Quote

You need to free your mind from the two Satanic snares of Sedevacantism and "No Salvation Without Water Baptism."

Come out of the manuals for a while and return to common sense.

If these people are right, the Church has been teaching error since the time of St. Peter.

The Dimonds definitive manual refuting with dogma all the theories against the dogmatic teaching of EENS as it is written

VS.

Just stick your head in the sand , ignore everything, and create a strawman ("If these people are right, the Church has been teaching error since the time of St. Peter.")

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:54:30 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Quote
I read about baptism of desire/blood in the Baltimore catechism, this article on Mr. Griff Ruby's site, Fr. Anthony Cekada's article y here, and more. I just don't know what to do. I care only for holding the Faith and going to Heaven. Its just that the Dimond argument is so strong. Its so clearly spelled out, dogmatically.

No they don't. They just have their Pharisee-like misinterpretation of dogma.

If a decree says "You must be baptized" that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. Imagine if you read everything literally, like in the Apocalypse where it says "murderers, adulterers, liars" and so on won't reach the kingdom of heaven. If you read that literally, then you're damned if you tell one lie, and can't be forgiven.

Being able to grasp the SPIRIT of the law is of the highest importance. That is why you have to trust real theologians and not amateurs which is what the Dimonds are, not to mention spiritually occluded. Can you imagine St. Thomas spitting constant venom and claiming everyone is a heretic, cartoonishly, like these guys? Why would you trust people who think that pretty much no one in the world except their one or two disciples will be saved? That is a personal cult, not the Catholic cult.

These guys are preying on scruples. Pray to a saint or to Mary to end your scruples. I am convinced if more people did the consecration to Mary of St. Louis de Montfort this would not be happening. We go about it all backwards, trying to work things out with our brains instead of through the light of faith and humility. Probably the greatest spiritual leap I've ever taken is since beginning this consecration. It fills you with a sense of your own unworthiness and from this perspective you get far sharper vision. God does not reveal his secrets to the proud; He abhors pride. That is why so many arrogant young bucks are going stone-blind. And though they may not think they're arrogant, they are, because there is almost zero emphasis put on prayer and true spiritual progress these days, on mysticism.

Brilliant and reposting so it gets emphasis to read.

Emerentiana · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:55:12 PM »

Most of us here have heard this nonsense over and over . Please go back to the archives and see how the forum has discussed this subject.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2011, 07:55:06 PM »

The zealots don't come here to read - they come here to teach and convert other to their "truths".

Emerentiana · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2011, 08:05:29 PM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

The zealots don't come here to read - they come here to teach and convert other to their "truths".

Yep, you are right Roman!